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trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:15 am
by guctony
Would it worth to train IJN dive bombers in the art of ground attack. Would they inflict good damage on ground troops and airbase strikes. In justification it will free up twin engine planes which are alredy too fragile. Has any one tried it before. Or is it best to stick late war Ki-43 for this task
RE: trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:51 am
by SenToku
Haven't tried this, but I would say that torpedo bombers would do better job.
The reasoning behind this is experience with squardons upgrading from Ki-30 Anns to Ki-21 Sallies. Damage of the squardon against enemy ground targets goes up by significant factor and only real difference is number of bombs planes carry. Val dive bombers carry one bomb, Kate can carry 2 and as highly trained and highly experienced they might get something done with level bombing. Not sure if it is worth it, since Sally still carries 4.
Don't really know what difference dive- vs level bombing does against ground unit. Might want to do some tests, unless someone already knows?
RE: trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:16 am
by Jorge_Stanbury
Dive bombers suffer massive losses to AA,so no, I won't use them for ground attack.
RE: trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:16 am
by guctony
ORIGINAL: SenToku
Haven't tried this, but I would say that torpedo bombers would do better job.
The reasoning behind this is experience with squardons upgrading from Ki-30 Anns to Ki-21 Sallies. Damage of the squardon against enemy ground targets goes up by significant factor and only real difference is number of bombs planes carry. Val dive bombers carry one bomb, Kate can carry 2 and as highly trained and highly experienced they might get something done with level bombing. Not sure if it is worth it, since Sally still carries 4.
Don't really know what difference dive- vs level bombing does against ground unit. Might want to do some tests, unless someone already knows?
I am assuming that dive bomber accuracy even with one bomb could be better. Unless there is some code or sometihng. Because to my exprience naval unit are not very good at land bombing. Like german stukas which were very good when they are not contested with enemy CAP. Dive bombers were very good ad attrition.
RE: trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:25 am
by kbfchicago
+1 jorge. Bad idea against any significant AA or base size (ballons). I've also noted no significant benefit over LB in terms of accuracy. So...Pick your targets carefully.
RE: trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:58 am
by guctony
ORIGINAL: kbfchicago
+1 jorge. Bad idea against any significant AA or base size (ballons). I've also noted no significant benefit over LB in terms of accuracy. So...Pick your targets carefully.
If no accuracy benefit no need. But I feel that there should be some accuracy advantage in open ground.
RE: trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:09 pm
by Cavalry Corp
Only use is port attack - that skill is very useful- so train for land attack with the aim of catching stuff in port but the AA loses can be high
RE: trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:10 pm
by crsutton
Nope, they will get slaughtered. Most Allied divisions have excellent AA assets by 1943. Not to mention AA batteries coming out the Ying Yang. It would be a total waste of resources for little gain.
RE: trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 2:27 pm
by Gaspote
I use my dive bomber as ground attacker on a unprotected base but the effect are really low.
Usually 25 D3A1 attacking Ulak Island, approximatly 2000 guys spotted, 20-50 casualities every day usually squad disabled, accuracy is 80%.
RE: trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 5:06 pm
by Sardaukar
US found quickly that using dive bombers in ground/airfield attacks (even relative sturdy Dauntlesses) brought unacceptable high casualties. Their specialty was anti-AA work because of accuracy, but casualties soon mounted. Book "Fire in the Sky" has good overview about issue.
RE: trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 5:08 pm
by geofflambert
I don't think naval air on either side should be used against ground targets. The yield is pathetic and the cost high. The only exception in my mind is a port attack if there's a lot of valuable targets disbanded. Train for that if you like but be extremely conservative about ordering such. I think this is similar to arguments about training fighters to strafe. I think that can be valuable but only against shipping that has little flak.
RE: trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 3:44 pm
by oaltinyay
Level bombers flying around 1000 ft mark generally helps to a degree but my perception is that IJN or IJA lack the heavies to take on allied division except chinese ones after the first year. DBs are too valuable to waste on ground bombing.
RE: trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 5:51 pm
by jmalter
If your DBs are already well-trained in NavB & NavS, go ahead and train them in GrdB. IME, they are more effective (& somewhat less vulnerable) in the level-bombing role at over 15k'. When they dive-bomb, enemy AA gets two whacks at them, once at their approach alt & again at their release alt.
RE: trainig IJN dive bombers in ground attack
Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 6:29 am
by guctony
ORIGINAL: jmalter
If your DBs are already well-trained in NavB & NavS, go ahead and train them in GrdB. IME, they are more effective (& somewhat less vulnerable) in the level-bombing role at over 15k'. When they dive-bomb, enemy AA gets two whacks at them, once at their approach alt & again at their release alt.
Thanks its agood idea to level bomb with dive bombers