Matrix Games Forums

Hello,

I was wondering if someone could poimt me to a certain thread or explain/show me what a good carrier task force formation should look like through out the war as the allies. I've read somewhere that during the early war you only want carrier task forces to contain only one carrier. Is this true? Has something to do with poor coordination between air groups early in the war if you put more than one carrier in a carrier task force? It's better to create 2 or 3 single carrier task forces & set them to follow the first task force? Is this all true & could someone please explain a good carrier task force & what it's composed of?

Thank you,

P.S. I'm m playing against the AI if that makes a difference

LoBaron has a very detailed guide here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3219921

All the answers are there, just read that thread several times.

how many carriers can dance on the head of a pin? allied only advice not valid for ijn.

i use rough guidelines for mine. in dec 41 fifteen ships ,one cv,four top aaa ca/cls(no omahas) 2 porter class dds,
and 8 dds of the same class.

in early 42 i shift to 10 ship tfs' by this time you need ships/ escorts everywhere and ships are going into their upgrade cycles. now 2 cvs 4 ca's or cls(don't mix) one porter the rest the same class of dds

do not use the wicks/clemsons farraguts or omahas as cv escort the limited speed and endurance with miserable AAA of these classes hurt.

as you go through 42 you will get CLAA add one to each TF. or if 2 or 3 carriers are all you have operating use them all in one . btw its always nice to have a surface action group acompanying the carriers or even 1 or 2 hexes ahead with the cv's following.

just my bit ymmv.

rms/pa

I tend to do 2-CV TFs in 1942. The added flexibility that 2-CV TFs have over 1-CV, no-penalty TFs is big. Once, I even combined 4 into one big TF (OK, of 15 ships because of the AAA diminishing returns after 15 ships).

Typically, it will be 2 CV, 1 BB if I have fast BBs available, 2 CA, 2 CLAA, and 6-8 DDs, depending on what's available. I may drop down to 1 CLAA as well (note that the CLAAs have ASW capability). I'm also not shy about breaking off the CAs and a couple of DDs for surface actions, and if I think that could occur on any given mission I will bump up the original size of the TF, if I can - even exceeding the 15-ship point.

These are all just habits I picked up from several years of play, however. You'll develop your own, regardless of what anybody here says to help you get started [;)].

You'll develop your own, regardless of what anybody here says to help you get started

truth.

rms/pa

Somebody once stated that if your CV TF has at least 8 DD you'll be almost immune from SS strikes. That's been borne out in my experience, key word being "almost."

Cheers,
CC

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Somebody once stated that if your CV TF has at least 8 DD you'll be almost immune from SS strikes. That's been borne out in my experience, key word being "almost."

Cheers,
CC

I am not sure if its the 8 DDs or a combined ASW value over 34, I have found with the value over 34 I am almost free of sub attacks on my big ships.

For later game Allied composition (ie. when they actually have sufficient carriers) what are the thoughts on having 2 or more Air TFs in same hex? If not what is preferable proximity??

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

For later game Allied composition (ie. when they actually have sufficient carriers) what are the thoughts on having 2 or more Air TFs in same hex? If not what is preferable proximity??

One or two carriers per TF and multiple carrier TF in the same hex. Each strike comes in and attacks only one tf while the CAP of all carriers in the same hex will attack all air strikes coming in.

I've had good results with carrier tf CAP providing cover one hex out, but the size of the incoming raids are never more than a dozen planes and are likely low on exp.

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

For later game Allied composition (ie. when they actually have sufficient carriers) what are the thoughts on having 2 or more Air TFs in same hex? If not what is preferable proximity??

One or two carriers per TF and multiple carrier TF in the same hex. Each strike comes in and attacks only one tf while the CAP of all carriers in the same hex will attack all air strikes coming in.

I've had good results with carrier tf CAP providing cover one hex out, but the size of the incoming raids are never more than a dozen planes and are likely low on exp.

I no longer believe this to be true. In my games, there have been recent strikes against some TFs under CAP and LRCAP...and ships from multiple TFs were attacked by the same raid.

I actually preferred this, as it kept my opponent guessing...

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

For later game Allied composition (ie. when they actually have sufficient carriers) what are the thoughts on having 2 or more Air TFs in same hex? If not what is preferable proximity??

One or two carriers per TF and multiple carrier TF in the same hex. Each strike comes in and attacks only one tf while the CAP of all carriers in the same hex will attack all air strikes coming in.

I've had good results with carrier tf CAP providing cover one hex out, but the size of the incoming raids are never more than a dozen planes and are likely low on exp.

I no longer believe this to be true. In my games, there have been recent strikes against some TFs under CAP and LRCAP...and ships from multiple TFs were attacked by the same raid.

I actually preferred this, as it kept my opponent guessing...

If so, it might be more accurate and thus better. I haven't seen it or heard it {but I also haven't got the beta updates}.

This article reviews the evolution of USN carrier doctrine in WW2, including the debates over the proper size of carrier task forces.

excellent , thx

rms/pa

All of the above is good and true advice, but keep in mind the answer is as always in this game... It depends (kinda holds true IRL too). It depends on which side you're playing. What time it is in the war? What's the strategic/tactical situation? What are you attempting to achieve?

IRL US carriers often operated in small seperate task groups, early on at least. Hence USS Enterprise gets away scott free (under a rain squall) and her companion gets slammed (don't recall the battle or companion vessel).

Was this late war? I don't recall such a thing happening in 1942.

Bill

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Was this late war? I don't recall such a thing happening in 1942.

Bill

26 October 1942 Battle of Santa Cruz

Enterprise was under a rain squall, Hornet got mauled.

ORIGINAL: rustysi

All of the above is good and true advice, but keep in mind the answer is as always in this game... It depends (kinda holds true IRL too). It depends on which side you're playing. What time it is in the war? What's the strategic/tactical situation? What are you attempting to achieve?

IRL US carriers often operated in small seperate task groups, early on at least. Hence USS Enterprise gets away scott free (under a rain squall) and her companion gets slammed (don't recall the battle or companion vessel).

In the begining of the war, using less fighters for CAP, separating task force making them harder to find is better than making one big which won't stop the raid anyway.

Especially considering they didn't got good air search at this time.

It was during the Solomons campaigns IIRC, maybe Santa Cruz. Enterprise was with maybe Hornet, ten miles apart. Hey TBH I got it from that program 'Enterprise 360', pretty good show. I could look it up when I have a little extra time. Same thing in the Midway campaign, but for different reason, right? Yorktown operated separately, but because she was delayed for repairs. BTW when I say separately I mean geographically and by just a number of miles (ie 10 or so). They would be 'in the same hex' game wise.

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Was this late war? I don't recall such a thing happening in 1942.

Bill

26 October 1942 Battle of Santa Cruz

Enterprise was under a rain squall, Hornet got mauled.

Hey, he got me.

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

ORIGINAL: rustysi

All of the above is good and true advice, but keep in mind the answer is as always in this game... It depends (kinda holds true IRL too). It depends on which side you're playing. What time it is in the war? What's the strategic/tactical situation? What are you attempting to achieve?

IRL US carriers often operated in small seperate task groups, early on at least. Hence USS Enterprise gets away scott free (under a rain squall) and her companion gets slammed (don't recall the battle or companion vessel).

In the begining of the war, using less fighters for CAP, separating task force making them harder to find is better than making one big which won't stop the raid anyway.

Especially considering they didn't got good air search at this time.

Agreed.