Matrix Games Forums

This is a server game that finally concluded. I am posting a couple of highlights. The game went out of balance in 41. I did a small version of the Lvov pocket that encircled everything west of Tarnopol. I took Leningrad early but made a mistake with my rail line and was unable to encircle Moscow. Rostov was taken on T15. I also took Sevastopol and the entire Crimea before the blizzard. During blizzard I was able to shelter most of my tanks and 1st and 2nd Infantry Corps in cities. After the blizzard things went totally out of control. Multiple small pockets during the snow turns were followed by massive 100+ unit pockets. The game ended on T58 with auto victory.

The first major encirclement happened on T11. The pocket was opened and resealed on T12.

On T15 I took Rostov and the three cities required to get Army Group A. However, the Germans decided to stop the advance here and started to entrench.

An overview of T50. Moscow was encircled and captured the following turn.

On T54 I form a huge pocket.

The pocket is broken with Tank Corps and I form an even bigger pocket encircling the Tank Corps as well.

On T56 I set up an even bigger pocket. There are practically no more units east of Tambov.

The pocket is broken but resealed on T57. I am setting up my troops for the final death blow and perform one HQ Buildup.

At Stalingrad the Hungarians have started the northern hook. Two HQ buildups here for the grant push next turn.

The defense of Rostov is weak and the city is taken for the second time on T58 after a bombing run.

Stalingrad was covered by brigades only and falls on the second attack.

Saratov/Engels pocket formed on T58. The cities were unprotected. I reach 262 VP. Game over.

An overview of the northern front.

An overview of the southern front.

A comparison of OOB over four turns.

A comparison of losses over four turns.

I know that one shouldn't read to much into a single game. But I must say that the 42 campaign felt unreal if not absurd. In my opinion the German side needs some serious fixes. To me it seems inconceivable to have multiple Panzer Corps at the gates of Stalingrad and to then perform several HQ buildups. I think a war game should continually restrict supply the further east the Germans advance. In this game it doesn't get harder to advance but instead it gets easier. I would even suggest that at some geographical point (for example east/south of the Don) HQ buildups shouldn't be allowed at all.

Just a couple of thoughts to maybe improve the game. I have also suggested changes to the Russians in my other AAR.

A discussion would be interesting although I know that this has probably been discussed many times before.

interesting overview, sometimes just a quick sketch of the main events can be more revealing than a detailed report.

I think, in various ways, its generally agreed that there is no real modelling of friction (esp for supply movement) in WiTE. You either have a functioning rail line close enough or you don't, but with no reflection of capacity or that the longer a line the less that can pass to the end (basic queuing theory as well as common sense).

So in that respect HQBUs up the central reaches of the Volga are a bit of a red herring - its unrealistic (but then I find HQBU's unrealistic, esp as it seems as if the supply is delivered by the supply fairy not drawn from the existing pot?), but its a direct consequence of the unrealism that sits at the heart of the supply system. Its a pity that a game that does a great job in modelling combat fatigue and recovery, assumes the invention of frictionless, unlimited, rail lines for the movement of supply.

Looking at the Soviet OOB it would have been interesting to see their numbers for the end of the winter, it looks like he started December with a smaller army, you seemed to be able to rest your units over winter as a result.

In that respect it looks a bit like your opponent made the same mistakes as Frogmarc vs Stef78 of being set up too close to your lines (& lacking the sort of reserve that could do more than just add to the final encirclements)? Other odd bits are that mass of units on the south bank of the Don, effectively too spread out to make an attack and guarding a lot of very valuable grass.

I just wonder if this is another instance where the various mechanics in the game just combine to give a run away result. I personally don't believe that WiTE is particularly biased either way (though 1941 will be better for the removal of the +1), but what it lacks (mainly due to the supply issue) is any means to allow recovery or to dampen the consequences of one side taking the lead. So its more that the game tends to be unstable?

Very interesting AAR.

I agree with Loki100, logistic is too permissive:
- HQBU should be more constrained (cost of AP, more than one rail line, not east of a certain line, one per turn?....) if not banned
- Offensive should compulsory stop atfter some weeks of advance. Maybe introduct some kind of structural disorganization/fatigue due to fight/advance

This game is another example that in WITE, richer get richer.

And congratulations to Oshawott!

Its a pity that a game that does a great job in modelling combat fatigue and recovery, assumes the invention of frictionless, unlimited, rail lines for the movement of supply.

Yes, I think that's at the heart of the problem. Friction should increase with distance from Germany. Maybe the game designers originally thought that partisans would take care of this problem? However, most Axis players have found relatively easy solutions to solve the partisan issue.