Matrix Games Forums

John3rd,

I have a question about an apparent anomaly.

Ran the first turn and looking over the Allied deployment the game looks very promising fro some real fun.

However, I noticed something strange at Pearl.

Near the end of the turn during the listing of reinforcement arrivals I saw the Pennsylvania listed as a arriving at Pearl.

Screen shot here:

Then I looked at the damaged ships in Pearl and found the PA with rather extensive damage including more fire damage than many of the ships that endured the attack.

Screenshot:

Then I looked at the combat report to see if the PA was actually present for the attack. It wasn't.
Screenshot:

Trying to figure this one out.

Did you hold it back out of the battle and have it enter as a reinforcement to reflect the inability of the Japanese to hit it with torps due to its being in drydock?

Is the damage representative of what was being repaired in the drydock?

If so, why the fire damage?

Aside from this little mystery, I'm really looking forward to tearing into this one this weekend.

Thanks again for this scenario.

The Pennsylvania was purposefully pulled out of Dec 7th due to the game not handling the fact it was in drydock. All ships in drydock or under repair on Dec 7th start damaged: Cassin, Downes, Shaw, Sealion, and Sea Dragon. We decided to pull Penn due to the game frequently hitting it with TTs. She returns on the 8th with her drydock damage as well as some from the attack. We had an extensive conversation about it in one of the Mod Threads. She cannot be sunk but is a mess on Dec 8th.

Sounds reasonable John and explains the mystery.

Thanks for the answer.

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

The Pennsylvania was purposefully pulled out of Dec 7th due to the game not handling the fact it was in drydock. All ships in drydock or under repair on Dec 7th start damaged: Cassin, Downes, Shaw, Sealion, and Sea Dragon. We decided to pull Penn due to the game frequently hitting it with TTs. She returns on the 8th with her drydock damage as well as some from the attack. We had an extensive conversation about it in one of the Mod Threads. She cannot be sunk but is a mess on Dec 8th.

Why so much damage? Historically, Pennsylvania was operational within a few days of the attack. Most of the time required was to clear the dock. She had some minor damage but not enough to significantly affect her fighting ability. I realize it's not a historical scenario, but the level of damage seems kind of arbitrary.

Well...those were the numbers we arrived at with 6-7 people throwing out their two cents. The ship would have been attacked by the Level-Bombers or Vals and so some damage was added onto the starting numbers. It was totally arbitrary but what we thought was fairly appropriate. If you have a differing view let's here it. I am not wedded to those numbers though they seem fairly appropriate.

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Well...those were the numbers we arrived at with 6-7 people throwing out their two cents. The ship would have been attacked by the Level-Bombers or Vals and so some damage was added onto the starting numbers. It was totally arbitrary but what we thought was fairly appropriate. If you have a differing view let's here it. I am not wedded to those numbers though they seem fairly appropriate.

It's your mod, so of course you should do what you think right. I was just curious about the reasoning behind it.

I think the damage in the December 8 start scenarios reflects the historical damage pretty well. That's 14 system points.

BTW she sunk at the end of the turn she entered.....before I had any chance to get her fires out and put her in drydock[&:][:(]

John, I also looked more closely at penns damage and it is equal to about 2 to 3 torp hits and close to 4 or 5 bombs. Maybe we should scale it back a bit. Say 30/15/15, or something like that....GP

Can anyone get the information as to WHEN Penn left PH for her overhaul? That might give us a better indication of her true damage.

Scaling it back does make sense...

John, Dec 20th she left for san fran. arrived in frisco on the 29th. Repairs complete march 30, 42....GP

If she left PH TWO weeks after PH then the damage we have laid on her is too much. OK. Am going tot he change it. I had thought she didn't leave until mid-January...

The repairs in SF also included some overhaul changes. Here is a website with the history of the ship:

http://usspennsylvania.org/WarHistory.htm

At PH, the Pennsylvania took one 250Kg bomb hit that destroyed a 5 inch gun mount and it received debris and damage from the destroyers that were in dry dock with her, especially the Downes which had two torpedo warheads explode. The delays getting the Pennsylvania underway to SF had to do with her propellers being removed and the general chaos that put lightly damaged ships on a very low priority for a while. The Pennsylvania had been scheduled to leave dry dock on Dec 6, but some delays in the work had left her in dry dock over the weekend. If PH hadn't been attacked, the Pennsylvania probably would have left dry dock on the 8th or 9th at the latest.

I would give her a little major engine damage to reflect the removed propellers, knock out a 5 inch mount with some Sys damage. She had no flotation damage at all.

That is if the goal is to reflect the actual damage at PH.

BTW, the above link says the Pennsylvania was operating with TF 1 starting in February. TF1 stood by in the middle between SF and Midway during the Midway battle. If there was some perceived need for the battleline, they would have been called in.

Bill