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anyone ever played around with fire teams to build platoons?
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:38 pm
by WABAC
The reason I ask is because I am back to work on my own projects this weekend. And the US squad in the early 60's features two five-man fire teams centered on the BAR/M14A1 supported by riflemen and a grenadier.
I suspect that one problem will be transport -- if there is transport. I suspect that 4 APCs/trucks will not be sufficient to carry six fire teams, weapons squad, and platoon HQ. On the other hand, the Pentomic battlegroups had little organic transport, so its not hard to come up with scenarios featuring infantry on shank's mare.
I was looking over some of Tazak's TOES and I notice that he handled the question by creating a 2x ISW and notching the SA value down a little, rather than just doubling it.
RE: anyone ever played around with fire teams to build platoons?
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:06 pm
by CapnDarwin
There was some talk early on with Tazak and maybe others on the SA values for multiple squad weapons. I would use that a basic guideline for what you are talking about doing.
RE: anyone ever played around with fire teams to build platoons?
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:26 pm
by WABAC
ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin
There was some talk early on with Tazak and maybe others on the SA values for multiple squad weapons. I would use that a basic guideline for what you are talking about doing.
I'll give that a shot then since my first scenario is mounted. And I'll see if I can find that discussion. Hope you are having a nice long weekend.
RE: anyone ever played around with fire teams to build platoons?
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:30 am
by Tazak
I have to admit I have not touched the ISW (yet - those stats are part of the original file), the thread was around the amount of firepower an infantry section had and how a HQ unit had the same firepower as a rifle section if both were equipped the same
The volume of transport needed per unit is somewhat grey but I did think at one stage that there was some correlation between the number of troops that make up 1 unit and the number of units a vehicle could transport i.e. 1 unit = 8 men, 2x 4man ATGM teams = 8 men therefore need 1 transport unit, however this appears not to be the case nor should it as a 'truck' can in normal situations mount 2 maybe 3 rifle sections with full kit.
However if you track a mech/wheeled inf unit (soviet one are good with the number of subunits in each coy), look at how many vehicle losses it take to change from a 'mech' unit to a 'leg' unit, with some trial and error you may be able to calculate the min amount of transport per formation.
RE: anyone ever played around with fire teams to build platoons?
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:48 am
by CapnDarwin
I'll dig up the transport formula. It is a number of units per transport with a bit of a overage to handle teams given the current simple system.
RE: anyone ever played around with fire teams to build platoons?
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:28 am
by WABAC
ORIGINAL: Tazak
I have to admit I have not touched the ISW (yet - those stats are part of the original file), the thread was around the amount of firepower an infantry section had and how a HQ unit had the same firepower as a rifle section if both were equipped the same
The volume of transport needed per unit is somewhat grey but I did think at one stage that there was some correlation between the number of troops that make up 1 unit and the number of units a vehicle could transport i.e. 1 unit = 8 men, 2x 4man ATGM teams = 8 men therefore need 1 transport unit, however this appears not to be the case nor should it as a 'truck' can in normal situations mount 2 maybe 3 rifle sections with full kit.
However if you track a mech/wheeled inf unit (soviet one are good with the number of subunits in each coy), look at how many vehicle losses it take to change from a 'mech' unit to a 'leg' unit, with some trial and error you may be able to calculate the min amount of transport per formation.
Then I won't hold the ISW numbers against you. [:)]
I did find that adding the 2 SF GPMP's into the Milan squad was enough to overtax the existing transport.
And then I decided to get back to my own project while the wife was out of town on the long weekend. So I hope to have at least an OOB and edited map for that a little later today. The sooner I get that done the sooner I can get to a scenario to test fire teams as the building block.
RE: anyone ever played around with fire teams to build platoons?
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:03 pm
by Tazak
Would you spread a 5man fire team over 500m, seems a thin line and not really in mutual support of each other.
Flip side question would be any reason for breaking down into fireteams rather than a 10man section
RE: anyone ever played around with fire teams to build platoons?
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:11 pm
by Mad Russian
There would be multiple fire teams covering a 500 meter area.
Good Hunting.
MR
RE: anyone ever played around with fire teams to build platoons?
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:22 pm
by WABAC
ORIGINAL: Tazak
Would you spread a 5man fire team over 500m, seems a thin line and not really in mutual support of each other.
Flip side question would be any reason for breaking down into fireteams rather than a 10man section
Well. With the Pentomic TOE it works out to 6 fire teams, plus the weapons squad, per platoon filling that hex. Quite a bit more boots on the ground than you get with the US six man Bradley squad.
And just to see if the formation would be more resilient. Whether it creates a better alternative than doubling squad assets like LMG's, RPG's, etc. For the USMC squad such assets would need to be tripled. [:)]
The scenario after the one I am hammering on today will involve a parachute/air-mobile battle group dropped in front of an oncoming reinforced Soviet tank regiment. [X(] 8th ID had two such battle groups. They will need all the help they can get until the cavalry (4th Armor Group) arrives.
RE: anyone ever played around with fire teams to build platoons?
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:32 pm
by WABAC
ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
There would be multiple fire teams covering a 500 meter area.
Good Hunting.
MR
Brevity is the soul of wit