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Nation Database - Counting Rifles
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:04 pm
by IronMikeGolf
Am I correct that, say for a mech inf sqd, in the Units tab, weapon list column, I should put an SAx entry for each rifle, ISWx for each machinegun, etc? Or is it just a list of the types carried by the unit?
For the ammo multiplier: is that the number of rounds (or bursts for automatic and burst firing weapons) before resupply is needed?
RE: Nation Database - Counting Rifles
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:50 pm
by CapnDarwin
Ammo is rounds or bursts for mg type weapons. Squads are abstracted to having a type of weapon only. No head count. Squad weapons, as talked about elsewhere if doubled up have been given a reduced from double SA value. Used a full plus half plus quarter ,etc. breakdown.
RE: Nation Database - Counting Rifles
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:49 pm
by WABAC
ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin
Ammo is rounds or bursts for mg type weapons. Squads are abstracted to having a type of weapon only. No head count. Squad weapons, as talked about elsewhere if doubled up have been given a reduced from double SA value. Used a full plus half plus quarter ,etc. breakdown.
An eight man section does not have more resilience than a six man squad?
RE: Nation Database - Counting Rifles
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:12 pm
by IronMikeGolf
So, does the Crew Size have an impact on a squad's firepower value?
RE: Nation Database - Counting Rifles
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:27 pm
by CapnDarwin
Size of the unit has a an adjustment, albeit small, in the combat code. Mainly due to the abstraction of the firepower at the 500 meter hex. We will need to have more refinement once we drop to 250 meters for WW2 and other infantry centric battles.
RE: Nation Database - Counting Rifles
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:24 am
by WABAC
ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin
Size of the unit has a an adjustment, albeit small, in the combat code. Mainly due to the abstraction of the firepower at the 500 meter hex. We will need to have more refinement once we drop to 250 meters for WW2 and other infantry centric battles.
Capn I am tempted to create one man fire teams.
Anyway, it seems like it would be advantageous to have more units (fire teams of any size) than actual squads.
RE: Nation Database - Counting Rifles
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:52 am
by CapnDarwin
The real question is footprint of the unit in a 500m hex. We are not at a tactical level where small fire teams operating in a hex would act any different from the larger unit in the hex. I guess I'm missing the point this morning.
RE: Nation Database - Counting Rifles
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:22 am
by IronMikeGolf
ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin
Size of the unit has a an adjustment, albeit small...
Emphasis mine.
I think WABAC was pointing out that it sounds like a platoon made up of 6 x 5 man fireteams has more SA firepower than a platoon made up of 3 x 10 man squads.
RE: Nation Database - Counting Rifles
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:32 am
by CapnDarwin
Let me have a couple days to finish the stuff I'm doing for 2.06 and I'll dig deeper on the code for infantry.
RE: Nation Database - Counting Rifles
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:33 pm
by WABAC
ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf
ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin
Size of the unit has a an adjustment, albeit small...
Emphasis mine.
I think WABAC was pointing out that it sounds like a platoon made up of 6 x 5 man fireteams has more SA firepower than a platoon made up of 3 x 10 man squads.
I wonder about firepower and attrition. Seems like those six fireteams would be more survivable than three squads even if they were armed with bolt-action rifles.
RE: Nation Database - Counting Rifles
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:04 am
by Mad Russian
ORIGINAL: WABAC
I wonder about firepower and attrition. Seems like those six fireteams would be more survivable than three squads even if they were armed with bolt-action rifles.
That's not even close to a true statement.
A single 3 man fire team, with modern automatic weapons puts out more firepower than a 10 man squad armed with anything in WWII. And all of them weren't using just bolt action rifles. I've done a lot of research comparing weapons systems from WWII through modern weapons. Rates of fire, bullet size, powder charge, effective ranges, burst fire rates all put a WWII squad in the far back of the bus.
The only WWII infantry weapons that would hold their own today are the MG42 and heavy machineguns, of which many of the WWII upgraded variants are still in use today.
Good Hunting.
MR
RE: Nation Database - Counting Rifles
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:45 pm
by WABAC
ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
ORIGINAL: WABAC
I wonder about firepower and attrition. Seems like those six fireteams would be more survivable than three squads even if they were armed with bolt-action rifles.
That's not even close to a true statement.
A single 3 man fire team, with modern automatic weapons puts out more firepower than a 10 man squad armed with anything in WWII. And all of them weren't using just bolt action rifles. I've done a lot of research comparing weapons systems from WWII through modern weapons. Rates of fire, bullet size, powder charge, effective ranges, burst fire rates all put a WWII squad in the far back of the bus.
The only WWII infantry weapons that would hold their own today are the MG42 and heavy machineguns, of which many of the WWII upgraded variants are still in use today.
Good Hunting.
MR
My questions and hypotheticals are about the game engine, not real life. I think I can still hang onto the difference. [:D] I used to work with data. And I still like to push it around when I have the opportunity.
The scenario I am working on is not so far removed from WWII. Which is not obvious in the context of this thread so far. But I found it difficult to give the M14 any advantage, besides range, over the M2 carbine or SLR in the stock spreadsheets. Given the range of numbers to work with I'm not even sure that the BAR/M14A1 deserves an SA of 2.