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I am now in pbem scn 2 July 43 - not one allied fighter has been shot down by a bomber.

I cannot believe that would be the case in real life even the odd accidental hit would have bought down a few planes.

My bombers have some good pilots and we now have better planes but nothing makes any difference.

Cav

You aren't flying fortresses that are bristling with 50 cal. machine guns.

You're flying paper mache planes with peashooters (well perhaps that's a bit of an exaggeration).

The point is that it's the huge 4Es that are bristling with guns that shoot down fighters not smaller less heavily armed 2Es.

I have also NEVER seen an allied 2E bomber shoot down a Japanese fighter.

If you want to shoot down fighters with bombers build 4Es bristling with armament.

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

You aren't flying fortresses that are bristling with 50 cal. machine guns.

You're flying paper mache planes with peashooters (well perhaps that's a bit of an exaggeration).

The point is that it's the huge 4Es that are bristling with guns that shoot down fighters not smaller less heavily armed 2Es.

I have also NEVER seen an allied 2E bomber shoot down a Japanese fighter.

If you want to shoot down fighters with bombers build 4Es bristling with armament.

The later B-25s can do it.... look at all those guns!

ORIGINAL: cavalry

I am now in pbem scn 2 July 43 - not one allied fighter has been shot down by a bomber.

I cannot believe that would be the case in real life even the odd accidental hit would have bought down a few planes.

Historically, first time (in early 1942) USN carrier wildcats met G4Ms, japanese planes shot down 2 wildcats. One wildcat pilot KIA, another rescued.

Never happens in game.

ORIGINAL: cavalry

I am now in pbem scn 2 July 43 - not one allied fighter has been shot down by a bomber.

I cannot believe that would be the case in real life even the odd accidental hit would have bought down a few planes.

My bombers have some good pilots and we now have better planes but nothing makes any difference.

Cav

This hasnt changed since WITP. No IJA/IJN bombers defense fire will shoot down any fighter.
You will never see Allied CV bomber shoot down japan fighter.
In the game are rarely japan fighters shot down by Allied 2E bomber and not so rarely by 4E bomber.

You are right, reality was different.

ORIGINAL: Puhis

ORIGINAL: cavalry

I am now in pbem scn 2 July 43 - not one allied fighter has been shot down by a bomber.

I cannot believe that would be the case in real life even the odd accidental hit would have bought down a few planes.

Historically, first time (in early 1942) USN carrier wildcats met G4Ms, japanese planes shot down 2 wildcats. One wildcat pilot KIA, another rescued.

Never happens in game.

Interesting reading, maybe?
http://www.wwiiarchives.net/servlet/act ... e/1311/0/0

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

You aren't flying fortresses that are bristling with 50 cal. machine guns.

You're flying paper mache planes with peashooters (well perhaps that's a bit of an exaggeration).

The point is that it's the huge 4Es that are bristling with guns that shoot down fighters not smaller less heavily armed 2Es.

I have also NEVER seen an allied 2E bomber shoot down a Japanese fighter.

If you want to shoot down fighters with bombers build 4Es bristling with armament.

The later B-25s can do it.... look at all those guns!

Granted, especially in head on encounters



seemed to have forgotten the axiom: NEVER say never...

Japanese 7.7mm machine guns on bombers have dismal accuracy. Army bombers have somewhat more accurate 7.7mm machine guns than the navy ones.

ORIGINAL: cavalry

I am now in pbem scn 2 July 43 - not one allied fighter has been shot down by a bomber.

I cannot believe that would be the case in real life even the odd accidental hit would have bought down a few planes.

My bombers have some good pilots and we now have better planes but nothing makes any difference.

Cav

In all my games and turns to date, I have NEVER had that happen (have a bomber shoot down and allied fighter) as the IJ. So don't feel bad. Maybe tomorrow will be my day. [;)]

Maybe Sonias in head-on attacks can score kills? They have 2 x 12.7mm MG in F position, though the pilots would need nerves of steel to take on Warhawks.

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: cavalry

I am now in pbem scn 2 July 43 - not one allied fighter has been shot down by a bomber.

I cannot believe that would be the case in real life even the odd accidental hit would have bought down a few planes.

My bombers have some good pilots and we now have better planes but nothing makes any difference.

Cav

In all my games and turns to date, I have NEVER had that happen (have a bomber shoot down and allied fighter) as the IJ. So don't feel bad. Maybe tomorrow will be my day. [;)]

Same here. I've given up hope.

I've never seen it too but, just today, I've seen a ki-21 damage a P-40E and force it to leave combat. The ki-21 involved had only 7.7mm mg; the sentai was trained to 70 in defence so I suspect this can make some difference; Hope to see one fighter downed when the sentai will upgrade to ki49 with cannon and heavier mg.

ORIGINAL: cavalry

I am now in pbem scn 2 July 43 - not one allied fighter has been shot down by a bomber.

I cannot believe that would be the case in real life even the odd accidental hit would have bought down a few planes.

My bombers have some good pilots and we now have better planes but nothing makes any difference.

Cav

I had several PBEM going into very late war and never ever an Allied fighter was shot down by defensive IJ bomber fire. The way it is modelled I bet you will never see this. IJ def armament = weak, Allied fighter endurance = high. In real life I bet there was the odd 20mm projectile now and then that might have downed a fighter. Even if it would have only been one a year, that would be more than you will ever see in the game. [:D]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

You aren't flying fortresses that are bristling with 50 cal. machine guns.

You're flying paper mache planes with peashooters (well perhaps that's a bit of an exaggeration).

The point is that it's the huge 4Es that are bristling with guns that shoot down fighters not smaller less heavily armed 2Es.

I have also NEVER seen an allied 2E bomber shoot down a Japanese fighter.

If you want to shoot down fighters with bombers build 4Es bristling with armament.

I've seen B-25 taking down IJ fighters quite often though I can't remember having ever seen a 1E bomber taking down an IJ fighter.

There was a story I read from the Guadalcanal campaign where a Marine fighter dove on a Betty formation and zoomed up underneath only to get his Wildcat shot up from a gun in the bomb bay of one of the Betties. The account said it was the only time anyone reported return fire from the bomb bay of a Japanese bomber.

The Wildcat was so badly shot up the pilot had to ditch and was later rescued.

The game counts planes that are damaged in a fight and then go down on the return trip as ops losses. In game terms the above account would be counted as an ops loss because the Betty only damaged the Wildcat initially and it went down trying to get back to base.

In the real war US bomber crews made a lot of claims for shot down fighters and many times they were credited with the kill for morale purposes, but the post war study of enemy records showed that many times the claims were exaggerated. Any there were many cases of enemy planes damaged by fire from bombers that later crashed trying to land.

Defensive armament on bombers is more of a deterrent than intended to down enemy planes. US bombers with the heavy use of .50 caliber guns were trying to shoot down enemy aircraft more than most other countries, but really all gunners could realistically hope for was to make enemy fighters pay dearly if they got too bold and/or sloppy. The rest of the time, defensive gunnery served to throw off a fighter's aim. The Germans held the Viermot (4 engine) aces in high regard not just because their targets were hard to knock down, but they had to fly through a hail of defensive fire that can be unnerving for anyone, even if it doesn't hit you.

Bombers usually had the best defensive armament facing to the rear because that was the best approach vector for a fighter. Forcing the fighter to approach from a less favorable angle would reduce the chances of them getting a hit.

Bill

Can the Betty 3a, with 20mm cannons knock any fighters down?

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Can the Betty 3a, with 20mm cannons knock any fighters down?

I don't think so...

We got it!
ladies and gentlemen: 2nd leutenaint Oba V.
the first japanese bomber to bring down an american fighter

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

We got it!
ladies and gentlemen: 2nd leutenaint Oba V.
the first japanese bomber to bring down an american fighter

Not surprisingly, those are some pretty dismal "Air Attack" numbers. Does that have any influence in the Bomber vs. Fighter calculations?

Kull, I think the bombers' Def skill & Exp is more important.