Matrix Games Forums

Can anyone explain the values in the txt files for the units (land, hq-land, naval, and air!)
There are a lot of strings and numbers - but I'd rather find a guide or so instead of tinkering and trying to deduct what they're!

Thanks in advance.

Should be listed near the end of Players Manual 2.

how do you change build point costs for divisions since that datum does not seem to be part of the string in the data file?

That part is hard-coded. As far as I know, only Steve can change that. Some have suggested using different unit types to get the cost, but that does change how the unit moves, what it costs to reorganize, and stuff like that. We're stuck with the standard costs.

That's disappointing because there are a myriad of divisional units that would be fun to have in the game but their cost relative to the corresponding corps or to their combat value seems disproportionate. This seems odd when the cost for second cycle cost for naval units and cost for planes can be changed it would seem? since you mention its tied to reorganization costs for land units as well that also seems unfortunate since motorized and mech corps cost the same to reorganize yet had no or fewer fuel consuming tanks. These units would be more appealing with lower reorganization costs as cruisers are among the naval units.

Is "stuck with the standard cost" a permanent situation for build and reorganization costs?

All I meant was that there doesn't seem to be any way to change either the cost to build or the cost to reorganize - there are no fields to specify such values. The second cycle cost for naval units was to account for the considerable variation in the displacement, armor and armament [air unit capacity for carriers] for some of the capital ships. I believe most of the British, French and Italian battleships [for example] that were being built early during the war, or had been started just prior to it, for the most all conformed with the tonnage limitations of the naval treaties [I can't remember whether it was the London or Washington in effect at the time]. Even if those treaties had lapsed, the designs would likely have conformed, as the designers would probably not have been too free to exceed them. I think even the Bismark and Tripitz conformed, or were close enough [as opposed to the Iowa and Yamato class] The Japanese designed the Yamato and Musashi to be the biggest because they wished to take advantage of the treaty limits, and to make up for their disparity in numbers.

But don't take my word for it; I've dabbled just enough with modding the data files to destabilize the game a few times [after a while, it would just refuse to load]. Therein lies the main danger with changing anything from "canon". Bear in mind, Bo stapled a dunce cap to my head after that boo-boo with regard to Yogi Bera's "football career" [Bo pointed out where I was wrong about that]. Which is just as well, since my father would have used his compressed air nailer, with 3.5" spiral spikes [galvanized, so they won't rust].

To answer your question, i would say yes, it is permanent. But all I can offer is my opinion, not hard fact. I've barely been able to scratch the surface of the data files.

Larry Thanks.
I get the second cycle cost differential especially for US BBs to account for electronics and fire control, number and quality of complement, engines, AA - its more than tonnage. However the divisional costs dont really correspond to their corps costs. These could have been fractional with a computer. Which is my real concern when I read your comment on modding limitations.

What changes brought the destabilization to which you refer?


Modding seems a significant part of game longevity and brings out many creative ideas from the community. I'm surprised all I've seen are different colors for units?

While WIF was in development computer gaming progressed dramatically and the leap over the limits of a physical game like step reduction to the computer environment seems incomplete. The all or nothing combat system is in place though ameliorated with partial disorganization and partial bomber factor aborts. But unit degradation in combat does not occur; the logistical limits of the HQ system remain ( i had to use an HQ to base subs in the south of France).

For instance the Stukas retain their 4, 5 , 6 and 7 factor tac ratings throughout the war when a large part of their effect early was psychological. The force pool changes of course are a partial compensation or attempt to show unit experience I suppose but this is a holdover from physical system.

The developer as I gather from reading the monthly posts struggles like a dog to bring this game to computer fruition and its a closed system. ADG physical acknowledged the hazard of that by producing a multitude of supplements.

Is the game really that fixed. I know little, but i know i like WIF and was quite excited to follow it and the personal efforts of the developer. I could continue in this vein a bit. The convoy system is kind of a pain and is the type of thing the computer program could seem to do well. I've spent more time messing with it than any other. Im loathe to sink any convoys if the subs could find them due to the time to reset it.

The game seems very closely tied to its physical progenitor. Any thoughts?

Jim

The game seems very closely tied to its physical progenitor. Any thoughts?

The game is a translation of the Tabletop game to a Computer Platform.

Working as intended (or in the plans for the long run at least, it will work as intended)

My desire for modding comes only in terms of some unit factors and such - not to the rules and other things.

What unit factors do you find desirable to mod and why? I might try.

I think unit factors are not too hard - to be honest.

For example I want to change the Eu-Axis carriers and up them some as they cannot carry their planes (Italy and Germany can build Carrier Planes that have higher carrier-tier than the carriers at avail. It's silly).

Then I've thoughts of a larger scale modding where Militias are worse and Armour better, etc - as per more laced to the cost of a unit in regular situations.

Many of the tables are 'hard-coded' in the program. I wasn't trying to create a WIF Mods kits, but I made a lot of the various elements of the game available to players as CSV (comma separated values) files. But there is a bunch of stuff that remains as internal data lists. Time and cost to build units, for example. Also production multiples for major powers and all the combat tables. The following are in the module ProductionTables.pas.

===

BaseProductionMultiple: array[TMajorCountries, 1939..1948] of Extended =
((0.75, 0.75, 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5), // Germany.
(0.5, 0.75, 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5), // Italy.
(0.75, 1, 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5), // Japan.
(0.5, 0.75, 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5), // Vichy.
(0.25, 0.5, 0.5, 0.75, 0.75, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1), // China.
(0.5, 0.75, 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5), // CW.
(0.5, 0.75, 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5), // France.
(0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25), // USA.
(0.25, 0.5, 0.5, 0.75, 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5)); // USSR.

UnitFixedCost = [fpConvoy, fpPilot, fpRetrainPilot, fpFactory, fpFort1,
fpOffensive];

UnitFixedTime = [fpConvoy, fpPilot, fpRetrainPilot, fpFactoryRepair,
fpOilRepair, fpNavalRepair, fpNavalRepairSub, fpFactory,
fpFort1, fpOffensive];

ForcePoolTime: array[TForcePool] of Byte =
(
2 { fpInfantry }
, 2 { fpInfantryD }
, 3 { fpCavalry2 }
, 3 { fpCavalry2D }
, 3 { fpCavalry3 }
, 3 { fpCavalry3D }
, 4 { fpParatroop }
, 4 { fpParatroopD }
, 4 { fpAirLanding }
, 5 { fpAirCav }
, 3 { fpMarine }
, 3 { fpMarineD }
, 3 { fpMountain }
, 3 { fpMountainD }
, 3 { fpSki }
, 5 { fpEngineer }
, 3 { fpInfantryHQ }
, 4 { fpArmorHQ }
, 1 { fpMilitia }
, 1 { fpTerritorial }
, 2 { fpGarrison }
, 3 { fpMotorized }
, 3 { fpMotorizedD }
, 3 { fpMechanized }
, 3 { fpMechanizedD }
, 4 { fpArmor }
, 4 { fpArmorD }
, 4 { fpArmoredMarine }
, 5 { fpArmoredParatroop }
, 3 { fpFieldArtillery4 }
, 3 { fpFieldArtillery5 }
, 4 { fpFieldArtillery6 }
, 3 { fpAntiTank3 }
, 3 { fpAntiTank4 }
, 4 { fpAntiTank5 }
, 3 { fpAntiAir4 }
, 3 { fpAntiAir5 }
, 2 { fpSupply }
, 0 { fpLeader }
, 2 { fpWarlord }
, 6 { fpCarrier }
, 6 { fpLightCarrier }
, 6 { fpBattleship }
, 5 { fpCruiser }
, 2 { fpASWEscort }
, 3 { fpASWNCarrier }
, 4 { fpAmphibious }
, 3 { fpNavalTransport }
, 3 { fpLiner }
, 4 { fpConvoy }
, 3 { fpSubmarine }
, 4 { fpFrogmen }
, 2 { fpFighter2 }
, 3 { fpFighter3 }
, 4 { fpCarrierAir0 }
, 4 { fpCarrierAir1 }
, 4 { fpCarrierAir2 }
, 2 { fpNavalAir2 }
, 3 { fpNavalAir3 }
, 4 { fpNavalAir4 }
, 2 { fpLandAir2 }
, 3 { fpLandAir3 }
, 4 { fpLandAir4 }
, 5 { fpLandAir5 }
, 2 { fpAirTransport2 }
, 3 { fpAirTransport3 }
, 4 { fpAirTransport4 }
, 1 { fpSubHunter }
, 1 { fpVWeapon }
, 1 { fpABomb }
, 6 { fpSynthOil }
, 2 { fpFactoryRepair }
, 2 { fpOilRepair }
, 2 { fpNavalRepair }
, 2 { fpNavalRepairSub }
, 0 { fpConstruction }
, 0 { fpConstructionSub }
, 3 { fpPilot }
, 0 { fpRetrainPilot }
, 4 { fpFactory }
, 5 { fpFort1 }
, 3 { fpOffensive }
);

var
ForcePoolCost: array[TForcePool] of Shortint = // For 1st cycle only
(
3 { fpInfantry }
, 2 { fpInfantryD } // D indicates a division sized unit
, 2 { fpCavalry2 } // 2 indicates that the corps unit costs 2 BPs
, 1 { fpCavalry2D }
, 3 { fpCavalry3 }
, 2 { fpCavalry3D }
, 5 { fpParatroop }
, 3 { fpParatroopD }
, 2 { fpAirLanding }
, 8 { fpAirCav }
, 5 { fpMarine }
, 3 { fpMarineD }
, 4 { fpMountain }
, 2 { fpMountainD }
, 2 { fpSki }
, 3 { fpEngineer }
, 5 { fpInfantryHQ }
, 8 { fpArmorHQ }
, 2 { fpMilitia }
, 2 { fpTerritorial }
, 2 { fpGarrison }
, 4 { fpMotorized }
, 2 { fpMotorizedD }
, 5 { fpMechanized }
, 3 { fpMechanizedD }
, 6 { fpArmor }
, 4 { fpArmorD }
, 4 { fpArmoredMarine }
, 8 { fpArmoredParatroop }
, 4 { fpFieldArtillery4 }
, 5 { fpFieldArtillery5 }
, 6 { fpFieldArtillery6 }
, 3 { fpAntiTank3 }
, 4 { fpAntiTank4 }
, 5 { fpAntiTank5 }
, 4 { fpAntiAir4 }
, 5 { fpAntiAir5 }
, 3 { fpSupply }
, 0 { fpLeader }
, 2 { fpWarlord }
, 2 { fpCarrier }
, 1 { fpLightCarrier }
, 2 { fpBattleship }
, 1 { fpCruiser }
, 1 { fpASWEscort }
, 1 { fpASWCarrier }
, 3 { fpAmphibious }
, 2 { fpNavalTransport }
, 2 { fpLiner }
, 1 { fpConvoy }
, 1 { fpSubmarine }
, 1 { fpFrogmen }
, 2 { fpFighter2 }
, 3 { fpFighter3 }
, 0 { fpCarrierAir0 }
, 1 { fpCarrierAir1 }
, 2 { fpCarrierAir2 }
, 2 { fpNavalAir2 }
, 3 { fpNavalAir3 }
, 4 { fpNavalAir4 }
, 2 { fpLandAir2 }
, 3 { fpLandAir3 }
, 4 { fpLandAir4 }
, 5 { fpLandAir5 }
, 2 { fpAirTransport2 }
, 3 { fpAirTransport3 }
, 4 { fpAirTransport4 }
, 1 { fpSubHunter }
, 1 { fpVWeapon }
, 1 { fpABomb }
, 7 { fpSynthOil } // Place holder, the actual cost varies by unit.
, 4 { fpFactoryRepair }
, 4 { fpOilRepair }
, 0 { fpNavalRepair }
, 0 { fpNavalRepairSub }
, 0 { fpConstruction }
, 0 { fpConstructionSub }
, 2 { fpPilot }
, -1 { fpRetrainPilot }
, 8 { fpFactory }
, 2 { fpFort1 }
, 15 { fpOffensive }
);

Thank you Steve this is very interesting. So does that mean these values can be changed by us?

Jim

Steve My interest is in reducing all division costs by 1 bp to get more of these fun units into action. and reduce cost for the lower performance art, AT etc.
Might lower build time for the arty was well and SP and tank units if this is possible.
Jim

ORIGINAL: TrogusP96

Thank you Steve this is very interesting. So does that mean these values can be changed by us?

Jim

Anything hardcoded cannot be changed by us. Data in the csv files can be changed. The Players Manual has a section near the end on the layout of many of the csv files.

So Shannon's message of May 19, 2015 where he says "Many of the tables are 'hard-coded' in the program. I wasn't trying to create a WIF Mods kits, but I made a lot of the various elements of the game available to players as CSV (comma separated values) files. But there is a bunch of stuff that remains as internal data lists. Time and cost to build units, for example. Also production multiples for major powers and all the combat tables. The following are in the module ProductionTables.pas. means we should not change anything in the module ProductionTables.pas?

Also i have added land units with unused ID numbers since land units are 2000 to 4000. Do you suppose there is a limit to this?

As far as I know there are no modules of type "pas" in the directory after you install the game. I'm guessing Shannon was referring to a build module that contains code which gets compiled into the MWIF executable and is thus available only to the developer.

My guess on Unit IDs is they are limited to 4 digits so the limit would be 9999.