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Hi all,

In my newbish solitaire game, it took the Axis forever to conquer France; I finally sealed the deal in September/October 1940. And in Nov/Dec 1940, Germany had to mop up British and Free French units near Belgium. (Denmark and Poland are conquered too, of course; Norway still neutral.) Being a newb, my grand plan has been to follow historical patterns in general, so that implies that the Axis should look eastward (Balkans, Barbarossa, Egypt). But my Vichy France roll resulted in Vichy governments throughout North Africa, with the Free French bottle up in Syria. The French slightly strengthen the Allied position in Egypt -- and the absence of Free French in the western Med increase the temptation to attack Spain. Italy is at war with France but not the CW.

Given that my Axis assault on western Europe is almost 6 months behind schedule, is it foolish to consider attacking Spain? I'm inclined to bypass the Balkans and just gear up for Barbarossa, but I'm not sure. Japan is floundering in China, but Russia has not intervened in Manchuria. US entry/tension is around 19/11 in both pools, so getting close to the first US gear-up.

I do plan a full AAR at some point, but I'm reluctant to start one with the edit function on these boards glitched right now. I can post pics if anyone wants further info. Any advice?

Spain is not as strong as it seems. They have few units and none that is a match for the German 40' forcepool. Note that you have to get your forces into
Spain before you Vichy France!

Try to setup strongly vs Bilbao, with 4stuckas and 3hexes worth of high factor legmovers, Bilbao is NTemp weather in Mountains and thus the toughest hex of the three you need. Vs Barca you should get a fair amount of shore from the Regia Marina, also bring thes hexes of ground but less air. One HQ for each attack to give support and one more to follow up the move on Madrid. It can be done in one summer turn, should be tougher in winter.

If you happen to have a stack of MTN units, it will be almost impossible to stop you from crossing the pyrineas o nthe suprise impulse.

Thanks for your reply. Oops -- I already did create Vichy France. I guess I'm out of luck!

It's not absolutely necessary, but it helps to make that decision in 1939. Though the same basic force structure can be used to take Gibraltar overland and then attack Russia later, each option is probably better served by fine detail tweaks to that structure. i.e., which units you build.

And the question is even better answered at a bigger meta-level - which Major Power are you trying to defeat, the CW, or the USSR? If the Axis all answer that question the same way and all work together on achieving that goal, they do much better as a whole. If they just start playing and then flounder around with no strategic goal, they quickly become reactive to Allied decisions and go on to lose the game.


Spain crumples more quickly if the Italians use the surprise impulse to land on some Mediterranean ports, and are generally willing to fight in the Western Med to land corps sized units and keep them in supply. A late-in-turn DoW and a double move can really threaten one of the most key Allied hexes in the game, somewhat suddenly.

If you already declared Vichy, you will pretty much have to collapse it and take the US Entry hit to attack Spain, which would also convert much of North Africa to Free French. If the CW has been building too many Battleships and Sunderlands, that might still work.

But if you were thinking to stay historical, you might want to do just that. Changing strategy mid-game is also usually a poor idea.

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, I'm inclined to stick with the original plan -- to focus on the Soviets. I'll try focusing on Spain and the CW next game.

Is it common for newbs to have more trouble on offense than defense in WIF? My Germans did conquer France, but it took almost six months longer than historically, and the Germans took some losses. My Japanese are backpedaling in China. I'm not sure what the heck to do with my Italians. I'm expecting I'll do better next time, as I'm slowly getting the hang of things.

There is no "Gamelin" in the French army. It isn't unusual to see that France gets conquered or Vichied late in 1940.

Italy is indeed the big question. What to do with them. I try to get them into the war as soon as possible and try to take out French North Africa (or Syria) by surprise. If only to get their economy running

The best way to play WiF is to make up a master plan for the Axis. That should be done at the end of the last impulse of S/O 1939 at the latest. Your builds should reflect for about 75% what is in your big plan. The rest is needed to rebuild losses (and you will lose units and planes in France).

If you're heading East, you should sort out the Yugoslav situation. The Yugoslav forces are weak enough that you can get the job done over the winter if you want to invade. If you want to align Yugoslavia it's a bit trickier, since you need to conquer Greece. That should still be feasible over the 1940-1941 winter season, since Greece is mostly in the Med weather.

Thanks for your replies. Is there a case to be made for bypassing Yugoslavia and Greece? Or are the resources too juicy to pass up?

The Commonwealth or France can align Yugoslavia if they get 4 corps in any adjacent country. So you usually want to prevent that, not because of the Yugoslav army, which is weak, but because of the potential positioning issues if the Allies can bring reinforcements in before you can smack it down. That means either conquering Yugoslavia or deciding to align it.

Greece, on the other hand, is best left alone, IMO, unless you're planning to align Yugoslavia or you're going heavy in the Eastern Med (perhaps campaigning in the Red Sea after taking Egypt) and want the shorter overseas supply line.

For the TL,DR summary: you have to do something with Yugoslavia, and you can safely bypass Greece unless you have a strategic purpose in mind.

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, I'm inclined to stick with the original plan -- to focus on the Soviets. I'll try focusing on Spain and the CW next game.

Is it common for newbs to have more trouble on offense than defense in WIF? My Germans did conquer France, but it took almost six months longer than historically, and the Germans took some losses. My Japanese are backpedaling in China. I'm not sure what the heck to do with my Italians. I'm expecting I'll do better next time, as I'm slowly getting the hang of things.

Any WW II game game that mixes strategic and operational levels is going to have a problem with France. The Allies command performed about as badly in France as it could have. Almost any Allied player is going to do better. WiF does what most games do: weaken French capabilities some, and live the fact that the Allies are still very likely to do better than they historically did. The Axis can improve other decisions in other places to make up for it.

The Commonwealth or France can align Yugoslavia if they get 4 corps in any adjacent country.

Oh! I didn't know that. OK, time to do something about Yugoslavia, then.

WiF does what most games do: weaken French capabilities some, and live the fact that the Allies are still very likely to do better than they historically did. The Axis can improve other decisions in other places to make up for it.

OK, that's reassuring. For what it's worth, I dimly recall having trouble as Germany in the old Avalon Hill game "France: 1940." I haven't played the more recent OCS title "The Blitzkrieg Legend", but the fluidity of the OCS system might mean an Axis player could replicate the historical results. It's easy to make big whopping mistakes on both offense and defense in OCS.

ORIGINAL: Grotius

WiF does what most games do: weaken French capabilities some, and live the fact that the Allies are still very likely to do better than they historically did. The Axis can improve other decisions in other places to make up for it.

OK, that's reassuring. For what it's worth, I dimly recall having trouble as Germany in the old Avalon Hill game "France: 1940." I haven't played the more recent OCS title "The Blitzkrieg Legend", but the fluidity of the OCS system might mean an Axis player could replicate the historical results. It's easy to make big whopping mistakes on both offense and defense in OCS.

Ah yes. France '40. That game had extensive rules that would, if one wanted to, allow one to duplicate the historical Allied and German plans. One did so only as an exercise in morbid curiosity. Letting the French play freely made was much, much harder on the Germans. (The last time I played France '40, home computers had not yet been invented.)

An Axis double move in 1940 can simulate the historical results somewhat. You don't have to think of World in Flames as the turns starting rigidly every January 1st, March 1st, May 1st, July 1st, etc. Ditto for using an Offensive Chit, and playing with the No ZoC on Surprise Impulse option. The impulse and initiative system represent the fluidity of events in the war; and the Allied high command was certainly a newb player at mobile warfare.

The alternative Vichy rules known as "LoC Vichy" also introduce the historical concept of declaring Paris an Open City, something not present in the standard rules.

Nonetheless, the Germans lost 100K men and nearly 1,250 aircraft = 3 or 4 corps sized land units and 4 or 5 airplane counters. That wouldn't be too unusual in a game of WiF, though with Vichy formation a little more likely in the Jul/Aug turn than the end of the May/Jun turn.

ORIGINAL: Centuur

There is no "Gamelin" in the French army. It isn't unusual to see that France gets conquered or Vichied late in 1940.

Italy is indeed the big question. What to do with them. I try to get them into the war as soon as possible and try to take out French North Africa (or Syria) by surprise. If only to get their economy running

The best way to play WiF is to make up a master plan for the Axis. That should be done at the end of the last impulse of S/O 1939 at the latest. Your builds should reflect for about 75% what is in your big plan. The rest is needed to rebuild losses (and you will lose units and planes in France).

For God's sake, when does this guy want to conquer France? The game starts at the end of the summer of 39, Sept/oct. There are possibilities of rain (or even worse weather maybe), plus he has to control Poland and cross Belgium and Holland, with the possible opposition of a BEF that could ZOC his advance partially, while comfortably protected by Fleet.

At my current board game I took France in Sept/oct 40, and got a part of the BEF as a dessert. And that was because they won the initiative (me having a +1), if not, all the BEF (like 5 units) would be dead, I am not counting the planes because they can rebase if not used.

Now, I am going for Greece. Italy has been neutral but it just declared war to Uk and this allows more flexibility in action types. The British TRSs are a little bit off to be of help in Greece, so I can have a turn without significative reinforcements there, and if they don't win the initiative, I have two very strong GE units ready to join by sea.

Greece has 2 valuable resources to give to Italy (for example) and Yugoslavia (you can align it on some conditions) has a lot of crappy units to garrison it's coast and France's plus 2 resources and 2 factories.

Greece only has 1 resource. And be careful, those mountains can be tough to break. Especially, I would think, if Italy hasn't been in the war up till now and therefore can't have that many navs to stuff in the Eastern Med and mess up the British from reinforcing.

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

Greece only has 1 resource. And be careful, those mountains can be tough to break. Especially, I would think, if Italy hasn't been in the war up till now and therefore can't have that many navs to stuff in the Eastern Med and mess up the British from reinforcing.

Athens is a clear hex though. Aligning Bulgaria the same turn you DoW Greece helps.

It helps, but it's hardly a sure thing. The Bulgarians have no HQ, and if you haven't aligned or conquered Yugoslavia (which makes the whole exercise moot) it's hard to get a German HQ there.

Which means the Bulgarians are limited, once they penetrate a bit, to sticking near Salonica and relying on an Italian convoy to stay in supply. If Italy hasn't had generous aid from Germany, which isn't really possible if they only got into the war post fall of France, then a gang of British carriers operating in the 4 box of the Eastern Med can make it hard for those CP to survive.


Even if the British can't send any reinforcements, you've got the 2 Greek initial units, and then the mil that will be coming next turn, as well as a garrison the turn after if you're playing CBVs. And a MTN on the resource, the inf starting in Athens and then moving either to hex 2414 or 2413 depending on how the Axis maneuver, or if necessary bringing the MTN back to cover both if you have both a fast column coming down from Albania and a Bulgarian contingent.

It won't hold forever, but it will stall, or force the Axis to try a risky attack against dug in guys in the mountains.

And if Italy only joined the war in say, J/A, I just don't see how it works. Did the Germans have units sitting in Bavaria and Austria, ready to walk into Trieste and be shipped to Albania right that turn? If not, you probably won't have that many units, or if you do, they'll be the Italians themselves. And Italy only has 1 unit that can move 4, so their advance through the hills is going to be slow, even with no resistance whatsoever.



Edit: One thing I am assuming is that even if the British don't have any transports/bodies to send to help the Greeks out, they do have enough of a naval presence to put pressure on the Eastern Med, make that convoy keeping things in supply a risky venture. This might or might not be the case in an actual game. If the British are staying out of the med, an attack on Greece is enormously simplified.

I like when an Axis player attacks the Netherlands and then Greece and then complains that they can't seem to hurt the Allied convoy system no matter what they do.

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

Greece only has 1 resource. And be careful, those mountains can be tough to break. Especially, I would think, if Italy hasn't been in the war up till now and therefore can't have that many navs to stuff in the Eastern Med and mess up the British from reinforcing.

Ok, it seems my memory served me wrong. 1 then, I beleve you, I am too lazy to check the map... [:)]

The mountains I know them, but I can handle them, I believe. I will even have bad weather, cause It wiil be in Nov Dec or Jan Feb, cant recall.

But since the weather in the Med is not so bad... the only problem may be mobility in those mountains, specially for the mobile units.

I know for the mountains the best is inf type (mont if available) with 4 movement rate, but I wanted to be able to blitz, so I have an HQ and an ARM ready to part in Italian ports.