Matrix Games Forums

Just did a test out of curiosity with training air groups for axis.

- set all German non F / FB west front air groups to training mission.
- set all German HQ doctrine to 60 pilot exp threshold (not sure it matters here)

In just one turn I lost over (operational loses) 800 hundred planes! My loses and damaged German planes totaled more than 1,200! WTF. This is crazy. Please tell me this is some sort of bug? Why would anybody in their right mind try and train pilots? Relate this to a Monty Python skit in which they training Kamikaze Scotsmen, lol. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es0t50H44IE

"They have to be trained sir, it's a dangerous job.."

Opps here's the after 1 turn air execution phase.

It's something we're looking at. This was raised by testers as a concern, but at the time we wanted op losses to be very high and we were juggling a lot of balls in the air. It's likely that training losses will be reduced in future updates as we get more info and make other changes. You can pin this one on me as I was given some warnings that it was too high. For now I suggest you be very careful with your training.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

It's something we're looking at. This was raised by testers as a concern, but at the time we wanted op losses to be very high and we were juggling a lot of balls in the air. It's likely that training losses will be reduced in future updates as we get more info and make other changes. You can pin this one on me as I was given some warnings that it was too high. For now I suggest you be very careful with your training.

ok good to know. For now just not going to assign manually AG to train until patch out.

thanks for quick response!

jzardos, one tactic I use is to put units with a lot of poor quality pilots fairly deep in Germany where any intercepts they do are against bombers only. Pilots train up fairly quickly in combat. Remember you can set some of your units to receive only fully trained pilots. This lets you maintain a few elite JG's ready for the Me-262's when they come into play.

ORIGINAL: jzardos

In just one turn I lost over (operational loses) 800 hundred planes! My loses and damaged German planes totaled more than 1,200! WTF. This is crazy. Please tell me this is some sort of bug? Why would anybody in their right mind try and train pilots? Relate this to a Monty Python skit in which they training Kamikaze Scotsmen, lol. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es0t50H44IE

That's great. a MP skit I have never seen before [:D]

I was thinking perhaps they should train, then the men hit the gastshaus

maybe someone should tell them not to use live ammo on each other while training [:'(]

ORIGINAL: chris.munson

jzardos, one tactic I use is to put units with a lot of poor quality pilots fairly deep in Germany where any intercepts they do are against bombers only. Pilots train up fairly quickly in combat. Remember you can set some of your units to receive only fully trained pilots. This lets you maintain a few elite JG's ready for the Me-262's when they come into play.

thanks, great suggestion to help

Another example of why training is broken. One turn after trying to train a Rom fighter AG. LOL, all 12 planes damaged. I know Rom not great pilots, but this is another example of why NOBODY should use training unless they want to lose/dmg there planes without any gain. Once again, it pains me that the testers did not catch (think they did?) and fix this before the release.

ORIGINAL: jzardos

Once again, it pains me that the testers did not catch (think they did?) and fix this before the release.

I think you have a wrong view of what beta testing is.

What it is not : "Here is the game. You have 3 months to test everyting. Then we make every correction and we sell the game."

It's an evolutive process. New version is up. Devs says they have changed this and this. They ask the testers to see if changes works as intented. Tests shows changes needs further tweaking. Then with every change, you can have an unexpected change in another area, because everything is interdependant, and this game runs some very complex mechanisms. Testers can't re-test everything every time a change is made. Maybe something that worked very well at an earlier stage was broken later in the development, and no tester saw it because it worked before and they were focused on something else. Maybe something was spotted, but the devs had no time to tweak it before release. You can't always retest and retweak everything, or else you never sell your game and you're out of business.

The day when the game is out, many many more players begin to "test" every aspect of the game with a fresh view. And so new areas that need tweaking emerge. That's inevitable. But frankly, I have seen countless games in the past that were much much worse on release that this one. And I mean, worse like "really unplayable before 3 or 4 patches and unbalanced before 2 or 3 expansions".

This one is stable at release and certainly playable. The fact that we have deep discussion about pilots training means that lot of more important mechanisms are already pretty solid. That's a very good sign for the future of the game.

Another example of why training is broken. One turn after trying to train a Rom fighter AG. LOL, all 12 planes damaged. I know Rom not great pilots, but this is another example of why NOBODY should use training unless they want to lose/dmg there planes without any gain. Once again, it pains me that the testers did not catch (think they did?) and fix this before the release.

One thing to remember, aircraft repairs during maintenance sub-phases happens prior the training flights. So all damage done during the training is kept till next repairs. Depending on the damage percentage these aircraft could be available already during the next enemy air execution. So it doesn't look so bad. Small aircraft damage happens during all kind of flights, it is just got repaired instantly in many cases.

Also training unit with average experience of 69 is a pure waste. Training is not intended to produce aces.

With all said we admit that aircraft losses during the training are very high and will be toned down.