"Breakout" -- all kinds of fun.

[MisterBoats]

"Breakout and Pursuit" is a treat. I have reached the banks of the Seine as of August 22nd, after a ferocious series of battles in the bocage country. Once Avranches fell, the Germans bugged out of Normandy and did not look back. No Mortain counteroffensive; no Falaise Pocket. I had hoped to swing up the US armored divisions along the Seine and bag as many German units as possible, although I certainly don't mind the long-range movement after several weeks in the hedgerows.

The book Breakout and Pursuit, by Martin Blumenson, is a great read. It's wonderful to be able to recreate that period, albeit with different strategies and outcomes. I do not intend to send any armor into Brittany, but I imagine that liberating a few of the ports there will be necessary for victory. Three infantry divisions have sealed off the peninsula. Everyone else is charging east. I plan to carry out a unified power drive along the coast, culminating in the liberation of Antwerp and its coastal approaches.

This is all a dream come true, and well worth the wait.

[Grotius]

Heh, I've been playing that scenario all evening, but much less successfully than you! In my first attempt (on Challenging), it took me two months to get out of the hedgerows, and I still hadn't taken Argentan. In my current game (on Normal), things are going faster. It sure is fun.

[speedy.gh]

It is easier to break through the West sector, where Americans can push with all tanks and infantry in a deep but weaker sector. It should take 1-2 turns to open a hole. From that point on, German AI retreats in a very ordered way, being very difficult to pocket anything but some isolted units.

[Remmes]

ORIGINAL: speedy.gh

It should take 1-2 turns to open a hole.

Can you really break their defense lines that fast? Took me several (4-5) turn of battering to get things fluid.

[Blond_Knight]

I loved playing this scenario during the beta. Id throw everything I had at holding the line and delaying the Allies. Then Id get steamrollered.

[Nico165b165]

ORIGINAL: Ramses

ORIGINAL: speedy.gh

It should take 1-2 turns to open a hole.

Can you really break their defense lines that fast? Took me several (4-5) turn of battering to get things fluid.

Here's what I have as WE at the start of turn 3:



This is my second attempt. The first attempt I was stuck in the bocage till the end of august like you. A few tips I found useful :

- Pay attention to the support units of your front lines units. It may give 1 or 2 extra CV which can make all the difference.
- You really need to optimize the movement point of every unit every turn. Attack with a good ratio (I find 2/1 good enough in most cases) but no more than what you need. Yes, 4/1 is better than 3/1, but wont those extra MP be better used to make another succesful attack ?
- Exploitation. Your powerful armored divisions can go deeply through some 1-hex corridor if needed. They have the power to bypass the ZOC to a certain extent. This way you can threaten the flanks and the rear of the enemy, forcing him to retreat from the bocage without combat.

I find the axis AI very clever in its "breaking and retreat point". Just when I broke through after my second turn, they began to retreat all the way to the Seine to avoid being pocketed. I only have 3 divisions pocketed in Granville and will need a few turns to clean this up. There is a powerful fallschirmjaeger division in there (70 CV !)

[Remmes]

Thanks Nico,

Looks like a pretty impressive stack on your left, poised for the breakout.

[MisterBoats]

I've been playing on normal difficulty. I began each ground phase with multiple attacks by the British and Canadians, hopefully to draw in as many German reinforcements and support units as possible. Keeping an eye on the movement points is vital. The congestion in the American sector is frustrating! A constant rotation of units is necessary, in my view, to allow armored and fresh infantry divisions a chance at assaults. I did surround a large German force in Granville, then Avranches fell the next turn. After that is has been a race to the Seine.

My plan is to launch a unified power drive up the Channel coast. I'd like to have 2nd and 3rd Armies side by side, plowing through everything that stands in their way. 1st Army can cover the inland flank. With luck, the Brits and Canadians will seize Antwerp and its coastal approaches by the end of the scenario. I do need to review the victory locations and make sure I don't ignore a few vital ones.

[Joel Billings]

Don't forget to use maximum interdiction on the part of the front you are trying to penetrate. This can be the key to a quick breakout. However, getting stuck the first time you try this scenario is par for the course, and if you don't get going well on turn 1, it is possible to stay stuck in the bocage for a number of turns.

[Ostwindflak]

Just curious if anyone has found success in playing with the Germans against an Allied AI in this scenario.

[Grotius]

I've played this scenario as the Germans for 2-3 turns on Challenging, Normal, and Easy. Each time, the AI was cleaning my clock! I was actually kind of impressed with the AI. I kept dialing down the difficulty to see whether it would hurt the AI much. Hmmph, if anything, it did better on Easy than it did on Normal. (

That said, the quality of the German units obviously isn't great. If you don't keep the Allies mired down in the bocage, it's trouble. Thing is, you don't have control over what happens in turn 1, and in my games, the AI always made it to Granville at least.

[Grotius]

I've been meaning to ask whether using Reserve units on offense makes any sense in a scenario like this (or in Italy), where it's hard to maneuver to bring lots of offense to bear. My worry is that Reserve units will clog up the area right behind my offensive line, and I'd rather manually shuttle exploiters in and out of those hexes, as Erik Rutins suggested earlier. Does anyone use Reserve on offense?

[Joel Billings]

They can make the difference in a close battle. It's always better to win than to be bounced, but on the other hand if the unit is not needed, it's better to save it for a follow up move/attack. I've seen reserves used effectively in this scenario, but I've also seen them overused, so I'm not sure if there's a clear answer.

[Grotius]

Thanks. Very interesting.

[carlkay58]

Breakout is the best scenario to learn how to use tactical air missions. With proper air usage, you can break out on turn 1 or 2 pretty regularly. Just play around with your air until you find what works best.

[MisterBoats]

In my second running of B&P (Allies -- normal difficulty) Avranches has fallen on the second turn. It appears that the Germans have a very thinly held line in the American sector. I did get severely thrashed in the 2nd turn after leaving two British armored divisions in an "outpost" hex -- one of those with about four hex sides exposed. The counterattack promptly evicted both divisions. It's great to see an AI opponent recognize and exploit bad human decisions.

In my first B&P experience I was interested to see the German forces congeal along thew Seine and put up a stout defense along that line. I took Paris in late August, but there was no pell mell race to Belgium or the German border. Simply getting the American units to the Seine took longer than I expected. A handful of divisions cleared Brittany fairly quickly, so that was good.

WITW is a real winner. I get that sense of immersion that we all seek, and rarely experience. AE does it, as well. Bravo to Matrix and 2X3.

[Nico165b165]

ORIGINAL: MisterBoats

I did get severely thrashed in the 2nd turn after leaving two British armored divisions in an "outpost" hex -- one of those with about four hex sides exposed. The counterattack promptly evicted both divisions. It's great to see an AI opponent recognize and exploit bad human decisions.

If you look at the bottom right panel with the AI instruction running, you'll see at the start of the AI ground phase a line "assault exposed units". That's the first move done by the AI, and that's the one responsible for such decision. And it does not only counter attack with adjacent units : in this breakthrough scenario, I had two US armored divisions exposed with four possible axis of attack. I thought I was pretty safe because they had ~15 CV for defense and the opposite german units were weak after the initial breakthrough. But in this "assault exposed units" phase, the AI brought some panzer and SS divisions from the british front and launched a succesfull counter attack. Maybe I did not setup enough interdiction power in this zone. I didn't think an AI could imagine such an impressive counter attack. Now I know it can.

[paullus99]

Nice to see the AI isn't held captive by stupid Fuhrer Orders.

[MisterBoats]

I agree. Hitler's handling of the campaign ranks right up there with the worst AIs I've ever seen. In other games, as the German commander, I establish a line well inland at the start. The bocage, higher elevations and being out of naval gunfire range aid the defense quite a bit. I even let the British have Caen, after I bombard it into rubble. I haven't played the D-Day start campaigns in WITW yet, but I look forward to them. This is going to be a "daily use" game. I may have to alternate days between WITW and AE.

[gerardo]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Don't forget to use maximum interdiction on the part of the front you are trying to penetrate. This can be the key to a quick breakout. However, getting stuck the first time you try this scenario is par for the course, and if you don't get going well on turn 1, it is possible to stay stuck in the bocage for a number of turns.

I'm playing this scenario (very fun) but, as happened to others, i have been stuck in the bocage for many turns. How do you use 'maximun interdiction' as you seggest?

Thanks, Gerardo