Matrix Games Forums

According to the RAF on 1/5/44 fighter Command strength or Air Defence Great Britain as it was then known was 868 planes in 54.5 Squadrons. Now I know what your going to say so I checked 2nd TAF and nope they are not included there, they had 90 Squadrons and 1400 odd aircraft including transports. The game appears to be shy a subsantial part of ADGB

Hi Smirfy, out of interest: Do you have a reference to your source?

If you let us know which Squadrons you think are missing we can check. Some units are deliberately not modelled at all - Coastal Command ASR and Met Squadrons spring to mind.

Having just spent 10 days going through the Air OOBs for some future scenarios it can be difficult to be 100% perfect. I thought for BttR I had captured every air group in the right place - I now know I missed half a dozen.
Sometimes pursuing the last 5% isn't worth the effort although it's not that the will to get perfection isn't there.

Yes sure they are on Christos intel corner, probably quicker to google RAF strength 1939-45. You get the plane totals and number of Squadrons throughout the war for Europe, Med and Far East, great resource. unfortunately no squadron designations. Its fascinating to see what the RAF was equiped with. Coastal command Tiger Moths You might need an app called scribd to read them but it is free

found the link http://chris-intel-corner.blogspot.co.u ... ports.html

It seems as well the ADGB and 2nd TAF flew 16 aircraft squadrons as well

When I build the RAF Order of Battle, I use, "The Squadrons of the Royal Air Force and Commonwealth 1918-1988". I go through each squadron individually. Now, not every squadron and aircraft is going to be in the game - only those that were used in a operational combat capacity. So, your air seach and rescue, training, army co-operation, liaison, ambulance and air target towing squadrons are not going to be in the OOB and these can be a considerable amount of aircraft and squadrons. If you can identify a specific squadron that is not in the game or point me to a reference that has the ready/non-ready number of aircraft per squadron on a specific date, I would be more than happy to review the source.

Trey

This is an example of what I mean. This is the ADGB structure on 6 June 1944.

http://niehorster.orbat.com/017_britain ... r_ADGB.htm

Take a look at No. 9 Group which includes eight Operational Training Squadrons alone. I'm not sure if your sure includes the numerous tactical exercise units and servicing units.

Trey

The source is an official document and lists the squadrons and aircraft in the catagories you say, the link is there. For instance on 1st May Air Defence Great Britan or Fighter Commandhas 54.5 squadrons of them 47.5 are operational, the establishment is generally 16 plane with two in reserve. The command consists a total of 1245 operational crews with 905 planes 748 servicable and 672 avilable with crews.

I assume if it included training aircraft you suggest it would mention the multitude of different types used. it does not which suggests its frontline strength

Not necessarily. If you look at my thread, in the case of the Lanc, the HCU and Lancaster Finishing Schools have a considerable number of Lancasters but are not operational...It could include OCUs and so on without funny aircraft appearing

If you look back at the Bomber command figures it hard to believe theses documents include training squadrons when the strength is 300 machines. What is undisputable is the strength of fighter squadrons was 16 machines plus 2 in reserve

I also chased down what the Tiger Moths were used for by coastal Command (for anyone interested) which was not training but in lieu of effective aircraft they were to pretend to be Swordfish and trick U-Boats into diving

It looks like a few Mossie squadrons are missing mainly in 100 group and LNSF or Pathfinders but its confusing with all the differnet variants. It appears also Fighter Commands NF's were all transfered to 100 Group by May 1944. I think some of the strike Mossie squadrons are also missing but

ORIGINAL: HMSWarspite

Not necessarily. If you look at my thread, in the case of the Lanc, the HCU and Lancaster Finishing Schools have a considerable number of Lancasters but are not operational...It could include OCUs and so on without funny aircraft appearing

Having now read the doct, it does not include HCU etc, just actual sqds (fully operational and converting/working up). So for May 1943 it lists 20 Lancaster sqds (I have been looking at pools and Lanc data is what I have most of), 18 of which are operational. A total of 360 a/c plus 48 spares (in sqd). I have 22 sqds with Lancs for end April but one is 617 (which I think will not be in the list). There are probably issues with 'being a Lanc sqd', and 'actually having any a/c'.

Back to your original issue, there is always a question as when units were fully operational (and so should be in the game). Not to mention should they be in early with low a/c or morale/experience so the player finished their work up or chooses to fly them early...

100 Group's EW squadrons are missing at the moment as EW functionality has not been incorporated.

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

100 Group's EW squadrons are missing at the moment as EW functionality has not been incorporated.

100 Group also ran intruder missions with Mossie NF's

I know and allowing Air Superiority Missions to fly at night is on my wish list too.

Had time to check out the Mossies and any difference is mainly due to being in differing commands than those official documents The only Mossie squadrons I could not find cross referencing 1/5/44 were 21 squadron and 255 squadron (Med) but that might be tired eyes. 333 Squadron (Norwegian) might be worth sticking as a recon squadron if its not there and if you really what to go off the wall 618 highball squadron but pretty much everything else tallied up Mossie wise except off course the 16 aircraft Squadrons.You could argue the toss beau/mossie in some squadrons but after 70 odd years who knows they all converted round about that time anyway. After playing the game and quite liking using the air model the next step is to get it to Group level and off course to get 100 Group, Pathfinders and night intruder missions working.

Noticing the two Tempest squadrons in 2nd TAF in game and none being listed in those docs I suspect thats were those spitfire squadrons are hiding again it seems the OOB is pretty much accurate apart from the squadron size which caused the discrepency in numbers with fighter command