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Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:15 pm
by DeZanic
Hi guys.
I am very new to this game and just playing it more and more has increased my thirst for knowledge about WWII and the Pacific Theater in specific. I am learning more and more about but some questions I don't get answered and I would like to hear your opinions.
Well we all know that the american population was against any intervention into the war by 1941 and the president seems to have wanted the US to enter the war as soon as possible, so technically he was a war mongerer. Ohh by the way nothing against FDR, he is a good man.
But I cannot understand how four big fat aircraft carriers with their screens could park so close to Pearl Harbor unnoticed? For me it sounds a little like a conspiracy actually. Call me weird but maybe the navy and army wanted to look away and let it happen so to have a reason to get the US into the war, as was the wish of the president. What do you guys think about this theory?
AND what if these carriers would have been spotted in time, would the US intervene? Would there be any war declaration anyway. What was the Japanese plan B in case the task force got discovered? I mean certainly the US would have increased the presence of patrols around Pearl Harbor to prevent the Japanese trying to come close again if this first attempt would have failed. So what would have happened if the carriers got discovered?
Lets discuss.
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:19 pm
by warspite1
It was 6 fat carriers.
Do you really believe that Franklin D Roosevelt was a mass murderer of his own people?
Was FDR a warmongerer or did he simply have the foresight many of his contemporaries lacked? namely that he recognised Hitler for what he was and he knew that he could fight him in Europe (either through or alongside the Western Powers) or in his own backyard at some point in the future.
Btw how can you be a warmongerer and a good man?
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:22 pm
by witpqs
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:39 pm
by Chickenboy
Let's not.
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:00 pm
by dr.hal
This has been batted around since 1942 and no one has been able to come up with any gun, let alone a smoking one about FDR and prior knowledge. So I agree, lets allow this one to settle into the mud, much like battleship row. Additionally many text seem to be clear that Yamamoto's orders to Nagumo were that if discovered within 24 hours of the raid, he was to carry on (Zimm's "Attack on Pearl Harbor" and other works).
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:12 pm
by Canoerebel
I'm glad to accomodate you.
You're weird.
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:12 pm
by DeZanic
Man you guys are boring... what are you british?
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:13 pm
by Lecivius
ORIGINAL: DeZanic
Man you guys are boring... what are you british?
Not I, and I agree 100% with the revered Canoe man. Tin foil hats belong in the Distant Worlds forum [;)]
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:17 pm
by sprior
ORIGINAL: DeZanic
Man you guys are boring... what are you british?
I am. It was really Illustrious, Ark Royal, Argus and Eagle with a bunch of Swordfish and Babararacucudadas to make sure you joined in all the fun.
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:19 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: DeZanic
Man you guys are boring... what are you british?
Warspite1
Well I'm British. I gave your questions the courtesy of a response and thoughts as to why I don't think there was any conspiracy and you respond like that.
What a tosser [8|]
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:22 pm
by dr.hal
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
I'm glad to accomodate you.
You're weird.
I am? How did you know?
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:23 pm
by sprior
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
I'm glad to accomodate you.
You're weird.
I am? How did you know?
Because you wouldn't open the bloody pod bay doors.
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:26 pm
by dr.hal
ORIGINAL: sprior
Because you wouldn't open the bloody pod bay doors.
[/quote]
I'm sorry Dave but I can't do that......
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:36 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: DeZanic
Ohh by the way nothing against FDR, he is a good man.
BoringBrit [>:]
Ohh by the way tosser, FDR died in 1945 [8|]
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:49 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: Lecivius
ORIGINAL: DeZanic
Man you guys are boring... what are you british?
Not I
warspite1
Yeah but admit it - you'd like to be [:)]
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:04 pm
by Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: Lecivius
ORIGINAL: DeZanic
Man you guys are boring... what are you british?
Not I
warspite1
Yeah but admit it - you'd like to be [:)]
What? Boring? Sorry, mate-I know that I'd never hold a candle to you for 'boringness' (is that a word?). I won't even try to compete with the likes of you. [:'(]
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:50 pm
by BattleMoose
And then there was that all Pacific commands were warned of imminent war with Japan.
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:14 am
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: Lecivius
Not I
warspite1
Yeah but admit it - you'd like to be [:)]
What? Boring? Sorry, mate-I know that I'd never hold a candle to you for 'boringness' (is that a word?). I won't even try to compete with the likes of you. [:'(]
Boring Brit [>:]
+1
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:19 am
by Encircled
I'm British, and I am not boring
You won't find me spending most of my free time playing a mega strategy game on my PC.........oh wait
RE: Lets talk about conspiracies - Pearl Harbor
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:43 am
by TulliusDetritus
ORIGINAL: DeZanic
Hi guys.
I am very new to this game and just playing it more and more has increased my thirst for knowledge about WWII and the Pacific Theater in specific. I am learning more and more about but some questions I don't get answered and I would like to hear your opinions.
Well we all know that the american population was against any intervention into the war by 1941 and the president seems to have wanted the US to enter the war as soon as possible, so technically he was a war mongerer. Ohh by the way nothing against FDR, he is a good man.
But I cannot understand how four big fat aircraft carriers with their screens could park so close to Pearl Harbor unnoticed? For me it sounds a little like a conspiracy actually. Call me weird but maybe the navy and army wanted to look away and let it happen so to have a reason to get the US into the war, as was the wish of the president. What do you guys think about this theory?
AND what if these carriers would have been spotted in time, would the US intervene? Would there be any war declaration anyway. What was the Japanese plan B in case the task force got discovered? I mean certainly the US would have increased the presence of patrols around Pearl Harbor to prevent the Japanese trying to come close again if this first attempt would have failed. So what would have happened if the carriers got discovered?
Lets discuss.
If you can find a single
serious,
respected scholar, go ahead. You are wasting your time though. No such
serious,
respected historian has said FDR & Co. knew PH was going to be attacked [8D]
That they knew the Japanese would most likely initiate agressive movements, ok. That was mere political analysis.
Just like saying the USSR was going to attack Nazi Germany, thus legitimazing the Nazi agression [:D] Classic neo-nazi stuff [8|]
And no, the existence of a plan is not enough. Every serious military organization will elaborate war plans (involving dozens of not-yet-but-who-knows hostile nations
) ... *Just in case* They are paid to do that.