Matrix Games Forums

For a simple game Empire Deluxe has one of the best ai's I've ever played against. Is this one as good or better. On small maps the expert ai in Empire Deluxe used to smother me. Just hoping this one is just as good?

Guess not as nobody has chimed in. Sometimes hearing no word says a lot of words. [:D]

I have never played Empire Deluxe, or I would gladly comment.

The AI in this game is no where near as good as the AI in Empire Deluxe. It's far far short of that benchmark. So far that I can't even play against this AI any longer.

Thanks Jeff you saved me $20 [:)]

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I have never played Empire Deluxe, or I would gladly comment.

It's really a good ai and game. Classic from the 80's you can get it at Killerbee.com or Killerbeesoftware.com been a long time. Google is your friend though.

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Thanks Jeff you saved me $20 [:)]

IMHO that is a mistake. This is a good game

I did play Empire Deluxe it was a good game for the period, but simplistic in comparison to ATG, very simplistic more like risk than a military simulator, the whole idea of custom building units from the ground up, dealing with the factors of morale AA AT HE armor types Infantry types aircraft of all types, then using these in a reasonably competent manor, that can only be scripted, and scripted AI is predictable, its hard enough in the Vanilla for the AI in some of the MODS its near impossible. That's why if you want a challenge you play a person. So its apples and oranges. The AI can be a challenge on higher levels and if you feel you are up to it try playing multiple opponents on higher levels. The AI is not any brighter but they have massive production advantages that will swamp you and you will find yourself overrun if you are not on your game. But it is in Human V Human that ATG excels.

I'm only concerned about the AI. Had I been interested in playing humans I would have asked how is this game for multiplayer vs humans. [:D] Empire Deluxe will continue to give me that what I am after. I thought perhaps this might be an upgrade but I see that it isn't.

I think that the AI, knowing what it needs to do, is doing a pretty ok job. The more complex a game is, or rather the more variations that are allowed, the harder it is to code an AI. ATG happens to be a highly complex game, with almost endless variations possible. That being considered, the AI does a good job.

Also, if you happen to mod something, and ATG is very good at allowing players to do so, you can actually reprogram the AI somewhat, to react better to your modifications. And if you are not really satisfied with the way the AI preforms in stock versions of the game, you can modify those too, and the AI in it as well to preform better.

ATG may not be Empire Deluxe, but nobody ever expected it to be. ATG is ATG. And measured by the type of game it is, and the modability of it, I´d say I´d play it until a successor comes along.

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I think that the AI, knowing what it needs to do, is doing a pretty ok job. The more complex a game is, or rather the more variations that are allowed, the harder it is to code an AI. ATG happens to be a highly complex game, with almost endless variations possible. That being considered, the AI does a good job.

Also, if you happen to mod something, and ATG is very good at allowing players to do so, you can actually reprogram the AI somewhat, to react better to your modifications. And if you are not really satisfied with the way the AI preforms in stock versions of the game, you can modify those too, and the AI in it as well to preform better.

ATG may not be Empire Deluxe, but nobody ever expected it to be. ATG is ATG. And measured by the type of game it is, and the modability of it, I´d say I´d play it until a successor comes along.

I agree. I played Empire Deluxe but it's been so long I can't even remember how it was [&:] As far as ATG goes, absolutely worth the 20 bucks!The AI is....well pros and cons, it definitely is able to challenge you, certainly as a beginner. It has a production advantage, a supply advantage and some other things, it manages to move aggressively against you and tries to encircle your units. It also does stupid things like produce too many units so they get supply starved. It can place too many units in one hex waiting to be slaughtered by your artillery.
I must say however that Vic has been improving on AI unit construction, sometimes I see AI units that are pretty well balanced.

So yeah the AI can be a bit dimwitted at times, on the other hand in my latest game vs AI on a very large map the AI caused me trouble almost till the end. My main problem being short on supplies, with only three cities being able to produce supply your force is limited, very limited. Supply is short, oil is short, ore is short, and the AI has a lot of everything, so yeah that's a guaranteed nailbiter. In the old AT any city could produce everything including supply so the more cities you took the more unstoppable you became, a snowball effect, and less fun than playing with limited supply rules.

So AI is less capable than a human player but fun nonetheless.

On the supply thing one can edit the game before starting and give the main Hqs of the different AI's a supply boost. You can assign up to 99,999,999 supply to a single Hqs.

ATG is a great game... and the AI is great for what it is. The thing to remember is that ATG is quite complex in it's ruleset and it's also very open ended... so they can't script an A.I. the way you could if it was 1 set piece scenario with 1 set piece map. Given those conditions, the A.I. can only be so good. You can make a an A.I. that is fairly "intelligent" for a game like Chess because the ruleset is so simple... there are only so many variations of moves that can be made. The more complex and open ended the ruleset, the more that falls apart...rapidly.

That's why...once you get experienced with ATG (or similar games) it's really only a human opponent that will offer you an intellectual challenge. The A.I. in ATG can be buffed to have more units, more resources, etc to offer a challenge in that way, but it won't play particularly "smart" in the way an experienced human opponent would... it really can't... rather it will try to bull it's way through.

Jeffrey H. is entitled to his opinion but he by far holds the most negative opinion of the ATG AI. There are many players who enjoy many many hours of gaming vs the AI. I am one of them. I would recommend you give up the cost of a dinner eating out and give ATG a shot. Comparing the relatively simple Empire Deluxe (one of my favorite games) to ATG is like comparing apples and oranges.

I like both games for what they are. However I used to play Empire "Wargame of a Century" for so many years during the late 80's so now I welcome more advanced games such as Advanced Tactics. Killer Bees Software have made an advanced version of Empire called Empire Deluxe Enhanced Edition (EDEE) and I would buy it in a heartbeat if they relaesed it on GOG.com or perhaps Desuro or even on Steam. It would be a must buy for me, and I bet that many others would as well.

ORIGINAL: Powerslave

I like both games for what they are. However I used to play Empire "Wargame of a Century" for so many years during the late 80's so now I welcome more advanced games such as Advanced Tactics. Killer Bees Software have made an advanced version of Empire called Empire Deluxe Enhanced Edition (EDEE) and I would buy it in a heartbeat if they relaesed it on GOG.com or perhaps Desuro or even on Steam. It would be a must buy for me, and I bet that many others would as well.

Why not just buy it from Killerbee? I've bought several games there and you get the setup.exe so just save it in a few places and you'll have it always. They send you the online keycode so you don't have to be online to play it or install it.

I have EDEE and enjoy it but it is still not as nearly as good a game as ATG.

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
Why not just buy it from Killerbee? I've bought several games there and you get the setup.exe so just save it in a few places and you'll have it always. They send you the online keycode so you don't have to be online to play it or install it.

I find this comment out of place, and not about ATG. It is more of commercial gimic to get people to buy the game you like. That kind of behaviour is not accepted on the Matrix Forums, and although Vic is a generous mod, and allows quite a bit of leeway, I find that you are taking unfairly advantage of him. Shame on you.

Powerslave said :

Killer Bees Software have made an advanced version of Empire called Empire Deluxe Enhanced Edition (EDEE) and I would buy it in a heartbeat if they released [sic] it on GOG.com or perhaps Desuro or even on Steam. It would be a must buy for me, and I bet that many others would as well.

AAAToysAndMore replied :

Why not just buy it from Killerbee? I've bought several games there and you get the setup.exe so just save it in a few places and you'll have it always. They send you the online keycode so you don't have to be online to play it or install it.

I don't think AAAs comment was wrong in any way. There are whole threads on the Matrix Forum alerting people to sales and good buys on Steam and other manufacturers. His comment was that the product under discussion in this thread was available from the actual producers and could be bought there.

Many of us on the ATG section of the Matrix Games' Forums love ATG, and your devotion to it is well known, and I think well deserved. ATG is a great game in my opinion, and has easily come to dominate my play for the last year, but I own many other games and am glad to hear of others which have their own strong points. Vic's fine products are doing fine in the competition of the marketplace.

Chuck

Have to agree, telling someone where to buy a game they are looking for is not a bad thing.