Matrix Games Forums

They're both over at the wargamer if you didn't already know.

I have played the SPWW2 game , but i didn't know there was v5.6 ! i thought it was only v5.5

anyone played the SPMBT v 1.5 version??

Nope. Has a "radical" map size change that can go even through the campaigns, alongside some other things. I haven't downloaded it yet, as I just found out about it at work today. Supposedly the AI will play for ALL map sizes that are chosen. It'll be interesting to see the differences between AI at the classic 80X120 grid (or whatever the standard size was) and compare that to what will surely be my first attempt, that is at 200X160 (200 is the maximum height of the screen).

tried sp-ww2 but it apparently won't run on xp oh well guess i'll stick with waw

SPWAW is better than WW2 IMHO.

but the modern variant is of
course interesting. played it
some time weeks ago. but
the version before had to
much flaws. perhaps i
try this new one some day..

I am playing spmbt 1.01 at the moment.

Thanks for the tip that 1.5 is available!

I will try spmbt again when it is supported y win2000:(

i´m stuck with win98

so most games run at my comp

Here's a link to the wargamer. which gets into specifically setting up their games for XP that could prove useful:

http://www.wargamer.com/spcammo/spinxp.asp

A mini-review of the current SPWW2 here.

I'm playing the GE campaign starting against PO, and I've picked the 200X160 map. I believe there are three roads running LTOR. the southernmost one being paved. The paved road slightly flanks the southernmost objective cluster (SPWW2 has them either in clusters, or each individual victory hex scattered throughout enemy territory). It is there that I have only a PZIVB platoon guarding that road, with perhaps a platoon of infantry as well.

What I've done basically is to move the mass of my units directly east of the three objective clusters, so considering those objectives are fairly mid-map I'm pretty open to flanking and the visibility is only 11. The clusters seem as though they're a good 40 hexes behind my front, so the enemy takes a while to threathen me, since I probably don't have any deployments more than 20 hexes in front of those objectives. I also probably have no more than 2 platoons of tanks within 20 hexes of each other, so it's somewhat piecemeal.

They've redone the pricing somewhat from what it used to be. My tanks are running on basically SPWAW prices, but the later year tanks are far cheaper (KTiger is maybe 121pts). I'm not sure what the campaign default for GE is, but I believe it's still the 1000pts. and of course is insufficient for a wider map, and given the at least early year tank price increase is probably insufficient all the way around. I thought some time back when they talked of widening the maps that it sounded good, but the problem of picking too little or too much force for any given map may remain. Naturally since the core default isn't adjusted to the map size this still remains.

In any event, back to the action. I believe I'm like 6-7 tunrs deep now, with the first enemy units spotted on turn 5. The southernmost paved road has seen 3 platoons of PO tanks, alongside an unpaved road in the center with another 3 platoons of PO tanks.

The southern highway attack has seen no infantry to date, with my PZIVB's not suffering a loss while inflicting maybe 8 kills so far.

The central attack is another story however. Still, I've suffered no losses through some PZ38's there, but I also had what was either 30 or 45 rounds of 81mm mortar I laid on the spot where the PO tanks were first spotted. These rounds have ripped into them deep. They lost at least three tanks, a crew, a numerous individual casualties, as the column has been loaded with infantry too. I'm not too sure about this, but I must've had an armored unit hit with each round approximately 50% of the time. While that's fine and good for me, I dread that happening the other way around, though the PO is very thin-skinned. I thhink SPWW2 has what I consider a very high rate of hitting armor in a given hex. Now if the hit ratio adjusts for the number of armored units in the hex fine, but if I'm getting or receiving soemthign like a 50% ratio all the time I'll have a problem with that, though I may decide to ignore it as best I can.

Elsewhere, where there is not even a proximate danger to the objectives in the north, I placed a mere section of PZ1A's to sound off a alarm and hopefully gut an infantry unit or two. Slightly further to the south, and further back in an area that makes an excellent horseshoe trap, I've placed thee 37mm ATG's in a line of woods, with 251/1's a hex behind them to vacate them quickly if necessary.

What absolutely fascinates me about that far northern sector, is that the first units I've seen were a platoon of MG-only armored cars. That's maybe the first time I ever recall having an entire sector of a front, in any rendition of SP, where mt MG-only tanks/AC's, were going up against the same thing. We're all trying to rout each other to death, and are hoping for a vulnerable hit. It's a real gripping stalemate . Funny though, that's going to develope into something, thanks be to my ATG placement. As things stand, it's reasonable to assume his AC's will keep going west or remaining where they are. As long as those AC's are all I see, the PZI's will proablt remain, however, those ATG's are of little use at this time. So instead of using a tank platoon fire brigade from somewhere else, I'm swinging the ATG's, without embarking them on the 251/1's onto a hill slightly to the NW. I think they'll be in place before the AC's have a chance to see them. I don't want top expose the 251/1's unless it's really necessary. In any event the 251/1's can at least soak up fire if those particular AC's are the only threat.

Meanwhile, in the south, I'm flanking as well. I have a lonely calvary unit which has advanced approximately 40 hexes and has yet to make contact. So, with this first small glimpse of the AI I've been in for a small treat. It would appear at this rough stage as though the flanking possiblities are quite workable. My flank is being turned in the north, quite possibly, while his south is at least probeable.

BTW, somebody put some wisdom into one aspect of this campaign, at that is, they have given TIME to allow for flanking manuevers. Typically SPWW2 campaigns gave the user 35 turns more or less, but now, this battle, the PO's are given 45!!!. No more 20 turn nonsense here. Of course, I am curious if a narrower map would've produced less of a turn limit, and whether the battle type would've produced a different amount, but the game has always produced different turn limits for different style attacks, I'm just not sure they considered map size as a factor all the time, but they obviously have with this larger map. Oh, 45 turns and 200 hexes, I'm in awe.

From this sample of play, it appears early GE with 3000pts. is a good amount to allow flanking as possible, while there's still some pretty good meat there. My typical SPWAW campaign battle was between 85-95 core units with it's smaller map. My 3000 in SPWW2 netted me around 105 units, but I may have to up that another 5-10 units if I'm too thin. The marvelous thing about that though, the game allows me to increase to size of my core, mid-campaign if I so desire.

One bad thing to report with this attempt at play, anyway, at that is that I've had turns where the AI moves take 5 minutes. Before the map increase I believe SPWW2 took no more than a minute on the same computer. 5 minutes isn't too much for a game like this, but it is touching on unacceptable. I'm not sure of the attacker/defender ratio on a SPWW2 delay, but if I have 105 core units, he may have over 300 units on that huge map (well, 300 minus the 10-12 I've already detroyed:D ). I believe the game is limited to 200 units per side, so I may not see 300, but rather 200 units of more expense. I have seen a sizeable tank force for this early on at least (I'm playing with their Ai tank heavy force rating on).

I hope the game pans out as fun as it's being for the time being, though if it takes 5 minutes to move all the time that might get a little old, but hten, if that's the price you pay for 200 hex height I'd say it's worth it. BTW, the delay may in part have been due to my not rebooting the computer after exiting CIV3 PTW earlier, so it may had been just an isolated incident.

Hmm, flanking indeed. Turn 15 basic situation follows.

First the northern sector which was defended by 2 PZ1B's, against at that time 3 WZ34 types with only MG's. The enemy presence of that AC type has increased to a full platoon, in this case 5 vehicles. The PZ1B's did admirably in standing their ground. The enemy decided to fire without further movement. The 3 ATG's that were trying to overlook those positions by moving NW, got successfully into position. To date, one of the enemy has been destroyed, and was unable to see the other vehicles. Later, as all 3 ATG's got in the ideal positions, the PZ1B's were ordered to proceed due west in the hopes of luring the enemy into the trap. Curiously, the tank deployed the furtherest forward, had not witnessed anything except those units. HQ suspects that this was nothing more than an enemy attempt to draw important units from elsewhere on the front, and will be shown to have been the whole of that so-called attack.

The central sector has shown to have held quite well, as a fair number of enemy tanks/AC's have been destroyed. There is no real threat there at this time.

The southern sector has the men crying: " AAAIIIEEEEE!!!!". As last reported the PZIVB platoon commanded by Burkhalter had destroyed approximately 10 enemy tanks without loss. Now, however, things have changed for the worse, much worse. The paved road was defended aptly, however the enemy threw in maybe 3, maybe 4 platoons of tanks, including a good number of the dreaded 7TPjw. One of our own tanks was destroyed, and all the others were severely damaged, whilst one was routed outside of being able to help for some time. Commander Burkhalter stepped in and fired rounds of smoke to cover his lone useable subordinates escape. Comm. Burkhalter decided on a fighting withdrawal, and both tanks perched behind the bridge hoping the enemy would suspect a counterattack and proceed carefully. The enemy wasn't so cooperative. He threw his tanks full brunt ahead on the road, resulting in the withdrawal achieving basically nothing. Burkhalter ordered another fighting withdrawal, and as Sgt. Schultz pulled his tank out of the coming melee, and his not coordinating his withdrawal with any attempt by Burkhalter to fire smoke, Schultz's rear hull was exposed as one of the 7TPjw's opened fire. The enemy having missed Schultz, Burkhalter fired back an answering blow, completely destroying the enemy tank (I'm not kidding, this actually happened during my player turn. There is such a thing as reactive offensive fire on ocassion in SPWW2, and it happened most dramatically and perfectly here). Not only are the tanks heavily damaged, but their AP shot has gone woefully short, and a resupply truck has been sent speeding from the northern sector to help that.

By the time Burkhalter had probably saved Schultz's life, Sgt. Sigfried (from the Get Smart series) recovered from routing and joined into the retreat.

As it stands, the southern sector is completely lost. The next resistance the enemy will likely encounter, should he follow the swing due north of the panzers, is a couple of fairly well deployed 37mm AA guns. High command has been shocked to learn that the AA guns aren't moveable without transport! The northern sector on hearing this decided their ATG half-tracks were no longer needed, and as such has sent them on a long journey south. As well, our northern most deployed tank platoon has decided to send one PZ38t to aid the ATG's up north, and another to the debacle far, far to the south.

All pleas for help have been relatively ignored apart from that, other than the southernmost mobile engineer platoon sending a radio-equipped Rauempanzer (sp?). In the deepest most recesses of the south, 2 AC's, only equipped with 20L55's, have set themselves up south of the intersection Burkhalter's retreat just swung north along.

On a lighter note, our lone attempt to attack the enemy rear, by the very bravely bold cavalry squad, has still not found any enemy units.

I think I'll stop my little report here. This battle has proved two things to me: 1. The AI is behaving with the idea of trying to flank in mind. Though the paved southern road was the speediest for the enemy, it certainly is well wide of any objective. With the 45 turns at hand, even this attack is a great threat. 2. My little cavalry unit in the very deep south has also proved that even though I'm on the defensive I can outflank as well.

As interesting as the great southern attack of the enemy has been, the opposite situation in the north is equally intriguing. I must've spent at least 5 turns dealing with those WZ34's with not a single other enemy unit in sight, which, if true, also shows the AI is geared for trying to send light units to try to wreck havoc with the rear. This attack though puny, was even more unlikely than the southern attack, because it didn't even have a road, and was even further from the nearest objective cluster. Give the AI some height, and it might just do some interesting things to you. I'd hate to think if it was '41 and I was facing the same number of T34's as opposed to 7TPjw's.

One thing is clear, the AI is perfectly willing to outflank with all those turns and map height, and it is also willing to attack in at least one sector with a very strong concentration. With the force I've selected for the attack I'm getting, this certainly leads to being exposed in a number of places, therefore making for more fun.

BTW, I also later started counting armor hits by bombardment on a hex whcih featured only one unit, and thus far the ratio is approximately a 1-in-4 chance, so that's not bad. Higher than I'm used to with SPWAW, but at least not the 50% I seemed to be getting with multiple armored units in the given hex.

charles: i noticed that SPMBT AI inplemented flank attacks quite often. perhaps the AI in these 2 games is a *little* better than SPWAW ..

Frank W: It's possible, however, when attacking the AI I think that SPWAW may do better. I haven't played an attack on the new SPWW2 AI, but it seemed to me the old AI didn't have any counterattacking when it was on a defensive mission. Sometimes, that's better than getting counterattacks, but since the AI has apparently been tweaked it'll be interesting to see if their defensive AI is doing things different.

Actually, if I recall correctly, the old SPWW2 AI was inferior on the attack as well, as I recall it seemed as though it always attacked across the whole front, while SPWAW would do that or do so upon 2 objectives, or even just one objective. The problem is even back then, the SPWW2 at least had the opportunity of having a 120 hex height, which definitely made a normally clumsier attack more difficult to handle. I think the map height of this particular bout, combined with my not having a great force does help things quite a bit. Another key, and I've yet to experience it's full impact on this attack, is that there are still 30 turns left. See how this battle worked out? Though the map slowed down the attack from reaching my forces, to a degree, you can see if this had been one of those typical 20 turn scenarios the battle would've hardly have been given a chance, much less that there would be an opportunity for flanking to come to a full rear attack fruition. The current AI, if I allow it, may not be going for the rear in order to find HQ and artillery, but at least it's forcing a great deal of action on the flanks. It just now occurred to me that the paved road attack on the flank which I spoke of, was an entire 2 companies, and I might not have seen all the units thrown into that attack yet.