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Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:11 am
by Furbet
Hi,
Latest version 1.3.3.0, could someone look at the attached image and explain why Mannerheim is in supply, the route shown is tracing supply through the rail link to the North East but I think that should be blocked by the ZOC from the 6-6 Mech ?
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:20 am
by Furbet
Saved Game file (if needed)
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:31 am
by Centuur
Looks as a supply bug to me.
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:55 pm
by AlbertN
I suspect it traces 2 West to the railroad, and then goes through the port of Vaasa to Helsinki.
Not sure which supply rules you use for Oversea supply (or if there are Finnish or even German CPs in the Baltic accounting for supply lanes.)
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:59 pm
by Furbet
But wouldn't going by sea require 3 hex supply range and it's only 2 because of the rain ?
Limited oversea supply is on but there are German CP's in the Baltic.
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:10 pm
by AlbertN
No, it's 2 hexes range to the Railroad that leads to a port.
Otherwise Allies would have immense problems to operate inland (or Japan in China inland).
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:30 pm
by Centuur
During Storm, the supply range is only two hexes... Therefore Mannerheim should be out of supply..
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:57 pm
by AlbertN
It's 2 hexes away from the Railroad to the West though!
Then then Railroad traces of infinite amount (2 Hexes to Vaasa, Sea Lane and Helsinki).
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:23 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: Cohen
It's 2 hexes away from the Railroad to the West though!
Then then Railroad traces of infinite amount (2 Hexes to Vaasa, Sea Lane and Helsinki).
warspite1
Yes but doesn't Helsinki count as a third move?
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:07 pm
by paulderynck
Move along guys - no bug here, although the sea supply route does not work because it does cost one extra to get to the terminating port (in any weather).
But Mannerheim is a Finnish unit and can get primary supply from a Finnish city - so 2 west to the RR, then free to Tempe, which is not ZoCed by the Russians due to the lake hexside.
So in this picture, Mannerheim is in supply in Fine, Rain, or Storm but not in Blizzard or Snow (in Snow, he can trace the 3 needed to Germany but the ports are iced-in.)
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:28 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: paulderynck
Move along guys - no bug here, although the sea supply route does not work because it does cost one extra to get to the terminating port (in any weather).
But Mannerheim is a Finnish unit and can get primary supply from a Finnish city - so 2 west to the RR, then free to Tempe, which is not ZoCed by the Russians due to the lake hexside.
So in this picture, Mannerheim is in supply in Fine, Rain, or Storm but not in Blizzard or Snow (in Snow, he can trace the 3 needed to Germany but the ports are iced-in.)
warspite1
Just makes you wonder how many honest mistakes were made playing the board game. I completely missed there was no zone of control issue from the Soviet due to the lake hexside.... I know the rule - just couldn't see it on the map!!
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:08 pm
by brian brian
But doesn't the Soviet 33rd Infantry Army exert a ZoC on the rail line in the hex north of Tampere?
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:11 pm
by Centuur
ORIGINAL: paulderynck
Move along guys - no bug here, although the sea supply route does not work because it does cost one extra to get to the terminating port (in any weather).
But Mannerheim is a Finnish unit and can get primary supply from a Finnish city - so 2 west to the RR, then free to Tempe, which is not ZoCed by the Russians due to the lake hexside.
So in this picture, Mannerheim is in supply in Fine, Rain, or Storm but not in Blizzard or Snow (in Snow, he can trace the 3 needed to Germany but the ports are iced-in.)
The railline itself is in a Soviet ZOC on the hex NE of Tampere by the Soviet 5-3 INF (there isn't a lake hexside blocking ZOC there). So how can Mannerheim get supply from Tampere? Sure, the city in itself isn't blocked, but the railline is.
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:45 pm
by Orm
Looks like a supply bug to me as well.
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:57 pm
by paulderynck
Right my bad. It is a bug.
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:59 pm
by brian brian
well, I can hardly think of a better place on the map to test the supply path algorithms than ... Finland
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:03 pm
by paulderynck
If there was something in the rules about tracing and fjords, Norway would be better.
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:23 pm
by etsadler
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: Cohen
It's 2 hexes away from the Railroad to the West though!
Then then Railroad traces of infinite amount (2 Hexes to Vaasa, Sea Lane and Helsinki).
warspite1
Yes but doesn't Helsinki count as a third move?
What about 2 to the rail, then on to Vaasa, then over sea to a German Port that is in Fair weather and so to Berlin?
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:42 pm
by Orm
ORIGINAL: RickInVA
ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: Cohen
It's 2 hexes away from the Railroad to the West though!
Then then Railroad traces of infinite amount (2 Hexes to Vaasa, Sea Lane and Helsinki).
warspite1
Yes but doesn't Helsinki count as a third move?
What about 2 to the rail, then on to Vaasa, then over sea to a German Port that is in Fair weather and so to Berlin?
Since the weather is storm in the hex the HQ is in the supply range is only two hexes. The port used in a sea supply chain count as one hex so it is one hex to many for the HQ to be in supply.
RE: Rules misunderstanding or Supply Bug ?
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:01 pm
by Furbet
Thanks for everybody's input, looks like concensus is it's a bug.
Do I need to repost in tech-support or is here enough ?