Matrix Games Forums

From obvert's AAR comes the tale of the blue hexside.

This moose is confused.

The hexside rules have long hornswoggled me; Lokasenna can testify to the number of bad decisions I've made under their view. But the situation in obvert's game where the 'W' hexside control key shows a blue-colored hexside, and Michaels' subsequent answers in Tech saying this CAN occur under the hexside control code when the side is co-owned, leave me scratching my head.

For the record I was sure enough a blue side could not occur under the 'W' key that I said so a couple of times. I have just re-read the relevant manual portions and can't find any mention of blue hexsides there except under the hexisde detail regime, which is different than the hexside control, 'W' key, regime.

So, my question is, under what circumstances can both players end up owning a hexside? And the code show a blue side? Retreats don't seem to apply; the manual states a retreat can only occur across an already-owed side. And one side moves LCUs last; the manual says the last across controls the color and ownership

Land gurus help me. How do you generate a blue? I can say, I think, I've never seen one.

Retreats would not be affected because a retreat cannot occur into a hex that contains an enemy land unit (or base AFAIK), and since the 'co-owned' hex side by definition must have units from both players in each of the two adjacent hexes, the presence of enemy units already rules out retreating across the co-owned hex side.

See - simpler than you thought!

[:)]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Retreats would not be affected because a retreat cannot occur into a hex that contains an enemy land unit (or base AFAIK), and since the 'co-owned' hex side by definition must have units from both players in each of the two adjacent hexes, the presence of enemy units already rules out retreating across the co-owned hex side.

See - simpler than you thought!

[:)]

I know retreats can't cause it. See my post. [:)]

Each side has an "inside door" and an "outside door." The outside is the inside of the adjacent hex. I can see and do see myriad cases of one side being red and the other green. But how is the WHOLE side blue?

Here's what I mean. From a new Scen 1 game.

The co-owned sides are red/green. The only blue sides are those with water that are impassable. This is the 'W' key display.

I'm really not getting your question. I thought Michael said it meant either side could move across it? Maybe I should re-read his post. Aside from it not being previously documented (AFAIK) it's a really special edge case that should only occur during a blue moon on a rainy Thursday during a zebra stampede. [:)]

OK, I re-read Michael's posts there and he said owned by both but did not directly comment on movement. So I've posted a question there to clarify that point.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I'm really not getting your question. I thought Michael said it meant either side could move across it? Maybe I should re-read his post. Aside from it not being previously documented (AFAIK) it's a really special edge case that should only occur during a blue moon on a rainy Thursday during a zebra stampede. [:)]

As far as I can tell it's not documented, no. But I can't see a case where it could happen. Retreats don't, and the last side's LCU to cross changes the color to its own. There is no simultaneous movement in the game. As in the picture there are two "layers" to every side, what I call the inside and outside doors. But I can't find a case or example in one of my games where they aren't red/green. Never blue.

There is simultaneous movement after a fashion. I have seen several instances where an Allied and a Japanese unit both moved into a previously unoccupied hex on the same turn. The hex displayed no ownership (A or J).

ORIGINAL: witpqs

There is simultaneous movement after a fashion. I have seen several instances where an Allied and a Japanese unit both moved into a previously unoccupied hex on the same turn. The hex displayed no ownership (A or J).

On the same turn yes, But at least when playing the AI one side moves, then the other, in toto. Been so long I can't remember which one goes first. Might always be the side the computer is playing. But in a PBEM game turn resolution I don't see the two sides moving at the same time intra-turn.

And I always see a shared hexside as green-green, red-red, or green-red. Never blue.

Maybe it's a "The Dress" issue . . .

ORIGINAL: witpqs

There is simultaneous movement after a fashion. I have seen several instances where an Allied and a Japanese unit both moved into a previously unoccupied hex on the same turn. The hex displayed no ownership (A or J).

If I remember correctly, hex ownership is determined right at the end of the turn. After all movement and combat is resolved anyway.

Bill

In our case movement occurred with one side, the Allies, moving into a hex owned by the Japanese. The Japanese units did not cross during that turn, so I'm confused as to how this came about too. A few turns before that the same happened and we simply got the normal change from a red hex side to a green hex side.

This seems fishy but it's difficult to get much from Michael's comments so far. If this was a 'normal' occurrence for mutually owned hex sides I think we'd have seen it long ago. Also, I know during other situations where units have moved simultaneously it hasn't resulted in a blue line or this kind of situation where neither side can move. Usually both sides are able to move.

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: witpqs

There is simultaneous movement after a fashion. I have seen several instances where an Allied and a Japanese unit both moved into a previously unoccupied hex on the same turn. The hex displayed no ownership (A or J).

If I remember correctly, hex ownership is determined right at the end of the turn. After all movement and combat is resolved anyway.

Bill

Hex ownership is easier than hexside ownership. The manual is pretty clear how that is supposed to happen. If it runs hexside ownership at turn's end it would have to have some kind of temporary array with the order of movement for all LCUs that moved that turn. Maybe it does.

I'm still grappling with what the term "simultaneous movement" means in the game. And I just don't see blue sides except for water hexsides. I'm starting to fear for my eyesight or sanity.[:'(]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58



I'm starting to fear for my eyesight or sanity.[:'(]

Let's hope it's your eyesight. You can always get glasses. [:)]

Referring to the game between Obvert and Greyjoy, that blue hexside has to be a bug. Never seen it happen before. I had an earlier thread where I was alarmed because I was not getting any supply flow through a green hexside on a major road. I suspected that was a bug too but never got confirmation. I think as far as hexsides go, the game may have a flaw or two. Rare but bound to happen.

I have seen two opposing units move into a hex during the same turn and none of the surrounding hexsides were controlled by either side at the beginning of the new turn. I assume that is normal.

ORIGINAL: el lobo

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58



I'm starting to fear for my eyesight or sanity.[:'(]

Let's hope it's your eyesight. You can always get glasses. [:)]

Coke bottles since 1966. [8D]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I have seen two opposing units move into a hex during the same turn and none of the surrounding hexsides were controlled by either side at the beginning of the new turn. I assume that is normal.

That seems odd too. I can understand the hex not being controlled by either, but if they come in through opposite hexsides those should be opposing colors. Right?

The issue is that the hexside control got some bad data at some earlier point in time. The blue line should only be present if you can't move thru the hexside (so either both or neither side own it [:D])

As for simultaneous movement, in combat if you have a wheeled unit and keep it in reserve and the enemy is "defeated," and they retreat alone a road hex, then the reserve unit will follow up and arrive in the retreated hex along with the enemy units that were defeated. That's the only time I've seen such simultaneous movement. But I don't think that's what you are referring to. Hal

Slightly OT, here's a question. North of Lae is a base called Nadzab. As you can see here, it has a potential to build a port. Problem is it's surrounded by land hexsides. Does that change if you build a port to size 1?

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Slightly OT, here's a question. North of Lae is a base called Nadzab. As you can see here, it has a potential to build a port. Problem is it's surrounded by land hexsides. Does that change if you build a port to size 1?

It's on a navigable river, I think that is why.