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10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:43 pm
by decaro
"The American Civil War is a source of great fascination to millions of military aficionados. More Americans died in this conflict than any other American has engaged in, before or since. Many of the soldiers who served and the men who led them were amateurs, products of the State Militia system. As is often the case, Americans rose to the challenge, learning on the job the grim lessons of battle.
"The Civil War produced many examples of leadership, both wretched and inspiring. It is not surprising that America’s greatest conflict produced some of its best generals. Of these, most worth graduates of the United States Military Academy at West Point (or of some other equivalent) and had served at least some time as officers in the “Regular” Army. One of the finest commanders was a gifted amateur, a born military genius who found his calling in the cauldron of conflict.
"Here is a breakdown of the top ten...."
http://warrior.scout.com/story/1461364- ... NDQzNzQ5S0
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:16 pm
by zakblood
was looking for my name tbh[&o][&o][&o]
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:21 pm
by Chickenboy
Not a bad list actually.
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:03 pm
by berto
A good list. I concur with the rankings, more or less, although I might place Grant ahead of Sherman.
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:28 pm
by sullafelix
Sorry, I feel Jackson is overated, much like Rommel.
Many Confederate officers wrote that their best chance of winning the war was during the Seven days battles.
Porter Alexander spares no punches when he writes about Jackson during the battles.
There has also been some complaints against Jackson on the last day of Second Bull Run.
These are from his fellow officers.
The group of nonentities that he faced during the valley campaign should not be enough to push his star so high.
Unfortunately he was never really tested on his own against competent Union generals.
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:38 pm
by Capt. Harlock
Sorry, I feel Jackson is overated, much like Rommel.
I more or less agree. Jackson did a remarkable job during the Valley Campaign, but he should have had his command decimated during Chancellorsville. It was raw luck that the Northerners didn't attack him while on the move -- the lower ranks knew he was there, but Hooker's subordinates couldn't be bothered to do anything.
I would rate Winfield S. Hancock as better than Meade: he was good on both offense and defense, while Meade was more the defensive type. Had Hancock rather than Meade been in command of the Army of the Potomac during Gettysburg, I rather think the Army of Northern Virginia would not have made it back to their home state, and the war might have ended almost two years earlier.
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:03 am
by fodder
bump
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:12 am
by wings7
Great story and list! Thanks Joe! [:)]
Patrick
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:27 pm
by Orm
How do you guys rate John F. Reynolds?
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:48 pm
by Blond_Knight
I felt like they whitewashed too much of Jackson's weirdness in the "Gods and Generals" movie. And after his lackluster performance in "The Seven Days", even if it was due to chronic exhaustion, I cant rate him as #1. In truth I think its blasphemy to put anyone but Lee as #1.
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:20 pm
by sullafelix
Yes, they made " old Tom fool " seem perfectly normal. There are some at the time who always believed that the " Stonewall " remark made by Bernard Bee was not meant to be a compliment.
Grant may have shown some strategy in the west, but in 64 and 65, he was just a plodder. Move left attack and get repulsed, repeat. It was almost like shampoo instructions. I mentioned this fact to a park ranger I was talking to in the " Wilderness " some years ago and he pretty much left in a huff.
Unfortunately it was not in Lee's training or disposition to take control of troops under subordinates. Much like Napoleon, he had a hands off approach to tactics. Both were ill served at times by them.
I completely agree with the writers of " Last chance for victory " that Lee envisioned an echelon attack from the right to the left on the second day of Gettysburg. if the general who was in charge of the North Carolinans? opposite Cemetary Ridge had not been mortally wounded before he was supposed to go in. I believe it would have succeeded with Meade having drawn so many troops from there earlier. I believe his name started witha " P ", but right now I have Pelham and Pegram floating through my head and cannot shake them out.
It was Pettigrew.
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:28 pm
by sherlock1
Hancock should be in the top ten, he's heads above Early, commanded more troops than Longstreet and was a winner. Should have Commanded the Army of the Potomac
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:13 pm
by DerTroof
ORIGINAL: sulla05
Yes, they made " old Tom fool " seem perfectly normal. There are some at the time who always believed that the " Stonewall " remark made by Bernard Bee was not meant to be a compliment.
Grant may have shown some strategy in the west, but in 64 and 65, he was just a plodder. Move left attack and get repulsed, repeat. It was almost like shampoo instructions. I mentioned this fact to a park ranger I was talking to in the " Wilderness " some years ago and he pretty much left in a huff.
Unfortunately it was not in Lee's training or disposition to take control of troops under subordinates. Much like Napoleon, he had a hands off approach to tactics. Both were ill served at times by them.
I completely agree with the writers of " Last chance for victory " that Lee envisioned an echelon attack from the right to the left on the second day of Gettysburg. if the general who was in charge of the North Carolinans? opposite Cemetary Ridge had not been mortally wounded before he was supposed to go in. I believe it would have succeeded with Meade having drawn so many troops from there earlier. I believe his name started witha " P ", but right now I have Pelham and Pegram floating through my head and cannot shake them out.
It was Pettigrew.
It was Dorsey Pender. Allegedly, Lee later said the ANV would have won at Gettysburg if Pender wasn't wounded. ("Last Chance For Victory" is a great book!)
But the echelon attack had already broken down when some brigadiers of Anderson's Division (Posey and Mahone), to the east of Pender's, refused to attack, for reasons that remain unclear. So only parts of Anderson's division went in, at a crucial time when if they had gotten decent support the Union center may have collapsed. Puzzled as to why not all of Anderson's division had engaged as it was supposed to, Pender rode over to investigate, and was mortally wounded by a Union artillery shell.
So Anderson, as commander of the recalcitrant brigadiers, has a large share of the blame, as does his Corps commander AP Hill. And so does Lee - the complex echelon attack he planned on July 2 required much more on-hands supervision than he provided, but as you point out that wasn't his style.
That said, Lee IMO is absolutely the greatest general of the ACW, and perhaps in American history. It's absurd this list has Jackson ranked above Lee. In fact, I would rate Longstreet a better general than Jackson, and there is some indication Lee did as well.
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:53 pm
by sullafelix
Yes, Pender, thank you.
A.P. Hill had a lot of explaining to do over the second day. Actually most of what I have read really doesn't show Hill as a good corps commander.
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:21 pm
by DerTroof
ORIGINAL: sulla05
Yes, Pender, thank you.
A.P. Hill had a lot of explaining to do over the second day. Actually most of what I have read really doesn't show Hill as a good corps commander.
I agree with you about Hill, he was an excellent division commander but quite erratic at the Corps level.
If he was incapacitated at Gettysburg, I don't understand why Lee didn't replace him, or place Anderson and Pender's divisions under Longstreet (who was short a division - Pickett's - anyway) for purposes of the July 2 attack. He did detach two of Hill's divisions to Longstreet the next day, too late of course.
So many questions! Makes for a great discussion though. [:)]
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:29 pm
by Challerain
I've seem some say that if Jackson had of been at Gettysburg on Day 1 he would not of hesitated as Ewell did and would have had the heights on day 1 for the CSA. Different battle if that happens.
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:02 am
by gradenko2k
I disagree with Lee being placed ahead of Grant considering Lee lost to him. As well, I do agree that Stonewall Jackson is very overrated.
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:46 pm
by DerTroof
ORIGINAL: Challerain
I've seem some say that if Jackson had of been at Gettysburg on Day 1 he would not of hesitated as Ewell did and would have had the heights on day 1 for the CSA. Different battle if that happens.
Yes, James McPherson, among others has said that. Ewell still had some brigades from both Early and Rodes' divisions that were only lightly damaged from the afternoon assaults on Union I and XI Corps, and theoretically fresh enough to make the assault. That neither Early nor Rodes encouraged Ewell to attack Cemetery Hill is worth considering, I suppose.
But the next evening with only two brigades the Confederates did reach the crest of Cemetery Hill, against a dug-in, better-rested and organized Union force. So this suggests Ewell could have taken the position on July 1, if he was as aggressive as Jackson supposedly would have been. But Jackson had his share of lapses too... so it's more conjecture. [&:]
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:29 pm
by jimi3
I've always been partial to John B. Gordon, who had no formal military training. His performance during the Overland Campaign speaks for itself. I also feel that 'Little Phil' Sheridan is way over rated. He made some near fatal errors in the Shenandoah Campaign.
RE: 10 Best Civil War Generals
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:26 pm
by sullafelix
Sheridan is just a little child who liked to play with matches.
If he didn't have overwhelming superiority of guns and numbers, we wouldn't even be speaking about him.