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Playing the new scenario 'Russian Civil War' and have noticed a couple points with the UNREP function:

-I filled the AOE with a good bunch of munitions and tried UNREP. It failed but I think I know why: My conclusions/speculation:

--Because the CVN is 'Lead' in the formation, when you tell it to UNREP nothing seems to happen
--When I told the AOE to UNREP, it immediately headed to the carrier (I have seen this before in NF-9, not sure if its designed this way but it does work)
--Because the AOE's top speed is 25, and the CSG was maintaining that speed, it was already starting to drop back a bit. I slowed the CSG down to 15knts and the AOE closed on the Carrier at 22knts. I thought this should happen automatically but it didn't even though the formation box was ticked saying that it was slowing down to regroup.
--Both the AOE and the CVN had an UNREP dialog stating they were closing on each other
--The AOE closed with the CVN but when that happened the UNREP dialog ended and they both became 'unassigned'

I THINK this happened because the CVN magazine is already chalked to overcapacity. Not certain. There had been some munitions expended so I thought that it might work for those but no-go.

So I think that general this function is working but there are possible issues with:

-who needs to be told to 'UNREP if possible' when the target of the UNREP is the formation Lead
-Formation speed, I think the formation should automatically slow down to allow the UNREP to happen
-It may be useful to have a dialog in the formation box read 'Slowing down to complete UNREP' or something
-A message would be useful to tell the player why the UNREP failed. In this case I think it’s because the CVN magazine was overstocked but a message would be helpful.
-When the UNREP failed or I guess was completed, the AOE remained where it was and did not try and regain its position in the formation.


Here are some saves. Fantastic function BTW


B

Thanks. Suggestions for fixes really help us out. I'll add this to our list.

Mike

IIRC we added a lot of fixes & tweaks some way back, are there are any loose ends on this?

just a suggestion...or an idea...

When you go to UNREP...could a dialog box like the "weapon" box come up and you "select" what you want and qty? And "from" and "to"?

You may need to supply several ships with limited munitions...and if one ship takes all of an item...well you get the idea.


Just a thought... [:D]

just a suggestion...or an idea...

When you go to UNREP...could a dialog box like the "weapon" box come up and you "select" what you want and qty? And "from" and "to"?

You may need to supply several ships with limited munitions...and if one ship takes all of an item...well you get the idea.


Just a thought... [:D]

The idea sounds good - a ship's shopping list, but that is a lot of micro-management if both the ships have 'tons' (ignore the pun) of items that can be transferred.
I suppose allowing you to cap the transfer might be a way to help this.
Like having an option 'Receiver load cap: 75%'. This somehow caps the receiver to only top up to 75% of its normal full load. Could be extended to fuel too I suppose.

This option probably would only work on a mission UNREP form though. Unless it was an option at the side/group/unit/mission doctrine level

Just another twist on the above suggestion.

Given that a lot of additions & tweaks have happened since the OP, can we get an update on this?

OK, challenge accepted:

Test 1
• Took an Ark Royal 2001, depleted a few munitions both in mag & guns, reduced the fuel (aviation & gas)
• Added a Fort Victoria 2001, added (908 Carrier magazine (UK,2001))
• With the two running separate, different courses on cruise. About 20nm apart
• Selected Ark Royal to UNREP (select automatically)

• CV immediately changed course and speed to RV with AOR
  o AOR did not adjust course
  o Moved AOR (‘m’ key) and CV immediately adjusted
  o CV did a good RAS maneuver, approaching from behind, adjusting speed (to a point)
  o Automatically started to replenish items
  o BUT – I had set a speed of ‘Cruise’ which for the CV is 18 knts, and it retained the manual override tag. So it passed the AOR which was also set to ‘Cruise’ (15knts) and retained the manual override tag.
  o When I untagged the manual override on both, they adopted 15knts but by now they were in almost line ahead formation 80M apart. It still worked but looked odd
  o Carrier mag to carrier mag worked perfectly; however

[/list]

• Fuel did not transfer, am not sure if that is because it may have been transferring Avn fuel first or not
   The Fort Vic has Stingray Mod 0 in her helicopter magazine, and she started passing those to fill the slot (0/60) in the carrier magazine
   Did not have Oerlikon ammo in the Fort Vic so those were not replenished.

Test 2
• Same setup except

Reset Avn fuel to max so it wouldn’t be a factor
o Unchecked the speed override buttons
o Removed the Stingray Mod 0 (and others) with a 0/xx value from the CV magazine
o Added some Oerlikon ammo and Gnat decoys etc
• Told the CV to UNREP (select automatically)

Same maneuver except speed was better handled but they stayed at line astern (AOR followed by CV) at 15knts distance 370M. It works but looks odd.
o Ammo transferred well from about 600 items down to about 200 then slowed down considerably. The pinch point seemed to be reloading the Mk214 & Mk245 Gnat flairs as they probably adopted the mount reload time as opposed to just getting them aboard the CV quickly and reloading in slow time
• I then realize the Fort Vic did not have Gas fuel so I added a Leaf Class which does.
o Told the CV to UNREP specifically from the Leaf class while it was UNREPing from the Fort Vic. It continued the first UNREP
o The items count jumped from 180 to 18 in one stop, not sure what happened there (save attached). Long pole in the tent was now 1000lb bombs which were slow but that is understandable
o The CV did not retain the 2nd UNREP order, when it was done with the Fort Vic it resumed course.
o Re-issued the UNREP order and it automatically selected the Leaf class and maneuvered to refuel.

So this works well. I’m going to run some more tests within groups, specific ammo etc. A couple observations:
• Overriding the speed override caused some issues. Perhaps a dialog or trigger to either remind the player to do that or that it will be done for them.
• Some feedback to the player – XXX ship refueling from XXX ship but it doesn’t have the right fuel type or something. It was a proper DOH moment for me…
• An AOR should be able to refuel two ships at once – I’ll test that in the group
• A ship should be able to UNREP from two ships at once (AOR & AO)
• Some ammo was slow- I think it probably takes up the magazine reload speed. This is fine in most instances but for things like flairs and heavy bombs, this can be a problem. The aim in the UNREP is to get them cross loaded quickly, then reload the mounts in slow time. It took about 6 hrs to cross load all the ammo and 95% of it was done probably in the first hour or so. This would probably take a two step process
• Another thing I will test is air ops – which I think would be severely limited during UNREP

Test 3
Set up a group consisting of:
• Ark Royal, same setup except added the decoys and flairs back to her
• Fort Vic, added some appropriate ammo
• Leaf class
• Type 43 (gas fuel) reduced some main gun ammo and fuel
• Type 23 (diesel fuel) reduced some main gun ammo and fuel
Set up the group, CV as lead, set course and speed. Unchecked the manual override speed box.
Told the group to UNREP, select automatically
• Started out a poetry in motion. Group reduced to 8 knts. Two escorts maneuvered around to replen first from Fort Vic. AO & AOR closed up on the CV simultaneously.
• It then started to go weird. The 2x AOs and 2x escorts started a piroet around the carrier in line ahead. This happened several times with nothing being transferred at all.
• I think what is happening is that there is an internal loop setup. The Fort Vic is trying to refuel from the Leaf. The two escorts are trying to repen from the Fort vic and the carrier is waiting for the Fort vic to replen her

I think what needs to happen is a tag on the AOR/AO not to refuel each other and this will probably work

Test 4
Set up 2 groups. Same ships and ammo/fuel loads. 1 Gp was the CV and escorts, 2nd gp was the two AO/AOR.
Hit run and told the CV Gp to UNREP select automatically
• CV Gp closed at 24 knts
• Escorts arrived first, type 42 started to replen from Fort Vic
• Type 23 started to refuel from Fort Vic, simultaneous with the Type 42 doing replen
• Type 23 was also ding replen but slowly
• CV closed on Fort Vic – I think should have gone to Leaf to refuel first
• So all three ships are doing replen (and the Type 23 is refueling) from Fort Vic simultaneously. (Save)
• CV replen – 1000lb bombs take a long time
• Type 23 finishes refuel and continues replen
• Type 45 finishes replen and breaks off but does not go to refuel (save)
• Everyone replenishes but neither the Ark Royal or the Type 45 go to get gas from the Leif

So there needs to be a bit added to the logic where ships hunt for the best option for both efficiency and fuel type. Everyone replens in line ahead which is odd but OK. When the 3 ships were doing it simultaneously they were right on top of each other. That is not a show stopper but just looks odd.

Next level would be that the escorts spell each other off with one maintaining escort station while the TG refuel/replen and they rotate through... but also not critical

Gunner,
Lots of testing, very nice. Haven't seen it all yet.
FWIW. Real-life a tanker can be on a navtrack and the ships go to her to replenish. Sometime a tanker is in the area and you can do a request and get a RV position. If the tanker is in the TG the ships go (often) sequentually to her. 2 ships at the same time, tanker stays on replenishment course. The tanker mostly can oil replenish 3 but the stern isn't often used (bad weather method). Depending type of recieving ship what she is able to receive.
best regards GJ

and a question if I may: can I see in the DB what the replenishment capabilities are a ships. Like only oil or also heavy duty replenishments?

Parel803 wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:42 pm
and a question if I may: can I see in the DB what the replenishment capabilities are a ships. Like only oil or also heavy duty replenishments?

GJ

Yes, in the DB view you can see the refueling capabilities in the properties section and in the Fuel section at the bottom you can see what they have to give. As far as ammo, you go to the magazine and a scenario designer usually has to load up the AOR/AE etc with the ammo.

I have been a tourist (army guy on a ship) during RAS a couple times so I've seen it in action, but that is about it. Impressive stuff.

Gunner,
Thank you for your time and answer, much appriciated.
best regards GJ