Matrix Games Forums

What size convoys do people use for routine convoys (say, from Truk to Kavieng or Noumea to L'Ville)? If a convoy is out of range of enemy air, is there any reason not to pile in 10-15 transports, so as to make more efficient use of scarce ASW assets? In other words, am I better off with lots of little convoys (each with maybe one DD or SC escort) or a few big ones?

Within range of enemy air, I suppose smaller convoys are better, because they're harder to spot. What do you think?

Personally,

I ascribe to the "pack every effing ship you can into your convoy" theory. Most of my traffic runs Cairns to PM or Gili-Gili, and I found out real quick that even the smaller 4 - 6 ship convoys get spotted. In which case, those Bettys and Nell can bash them for the entire trip. It makes a big mess if you don't have cap.

So my solution is cram as much into the convoy as possible (which helps for ASW and AAA protection), have a CV TF shadow it, and send it on it's way.

-F-

Thanks, Feinder. So you do this even in range of enemy air, eh?

I think I've got waaaay too many Transport TFs running around.

Feinder is right again IMHO. If you gotta go, bring a load. You always get spotted and hit sooner or later, anyway. A big convoy will get more stuff through and may have more self-protection. Additionally, you can protect it better with your LBA fighters and even accompany it with your CVs, if it is a big deal and going in serious harm's way. For the Allies, I like to put those three CVEs that come equipped with air groups (after they arrive) into a TF that follows the transport TF, not only for the fighter support, but also because they siphon off Japanese air attacks. Those nagging small attacks sometimes leak through and hit something, and I sure hate to lose an AP to a stray torpedo hit or two.

Single transports do get spotted, but nobody bothers to attack them. At least not by LBA, TF-Air will, if there is no other target nearby. At least to my experience.
So defended sea-line consept is my way to go in supply of PM as USN or Lunga and Lae as early IJN.

<< So defended sea-line consept is my way to go in supply of PM as USN or Lunga and Lae as early IJN. >>

By sea-line, do you mean a steady stream of very small supply convoys?

"So you do this even in range of enemy air, eh? "

The snide answer is EVERYTHING is in range of enemy air (if you're playing as USN). Take a look at the range of the Bettys and Nells from Rabaul, they are fully capable of hitting Cooktown and Cairnes withing NORMAL range, and Townsville can be hit easily withing extended range.

So even your "safe" convoys running between Townville and Cairs are potential targets. Granted, it's not as likely that they'll get attacked as a TF near PM, but if they're the only options that Rabaul tower has spotting reports for, he WILL send bomers to attack them if they don't have CAP.

That's where those "Worthless Wirraways" come in handy. You can plunk those guys at Cairns and Cooktown (and maybe Townsville if you've got a 3rd squadron), and set them to LCAP when you've got convoys in their area. They'll fly CAP over the convoy (if you ask them to), and deter the Nells and Bettys from causing trouble (somehow, the Rabaul tower KNOWS there's CAP over the convoy, and won't send the strike). But yes, I've had some "simple" 4-ship resupply convoys dropping supplies on Cooktown (pre Wirraway CAP), and 12 Nells showed up and pasted 2 of my transports.

Your next convoys are from Cairns or Townsville to PM or Gili-Gili. Those are the big convoys, as in 20 or more ships. Large convoy works for the same reasons it did in the Atlantic theather. Essentially, it takes MORE assets to escort a half-dozen little convoys than 1 or 2 big ones.

1. If you only got 6 DDs, it's better to have them available for the big convoy, than to spread them out as 1 DD for 6 small convoys.
2. The AAA from a 2 or 3 freighters isn't much, but when you're adding up 20 of them, plus your 6 DDs, you've actually got a fair AAA defense. Yes, I realize there is "diminishing returns" for TFs with more than 10 ships (or is it 15?), but even if you're only getting 80% of the AAA value from those extra ships, it's still alot better than than just having 2 - 3 ships together.
3. Obvioulsy, if you've got a big convoy like that, it's going to be a prize your opponent wants to maul. So be prepared to defend it. If you got a "spare" carrier lying around (I use a CV with 25 Sys Dam, see the other thread on repair rates), these work great. Yes, it's dramatic to click on the CV and see her smoking. But the fact is she can still get 80% or more of aircraft in the air, and still makes 25 kts (which runs circles around the freighters anyways). She's not worth risking in a full engagment with your main battle groups, but I'm just getting the max use out of her before I send her home.

I will share that the problem that I have is during unloading. Knavey LOVES bombardment TFs. He managed to catch a convoy in PM while it was unloading and shot up a couple of ships. I think he maybe sunk one freighter. I thot if the port was size 3 or more (such as PM is), that my TF wouldn't be subject to the attack, but I guess not. The other problem is that (esp since we play 2-day turns), I don't want my CV TF that is shadowing to show up in port either (for that same reason). But if I divert the course of my CV TF (even if we're almost to PM) to stand off a hex or two from PM while the convoy unloads, there's the 1 turn between the split of CV/convoy and the time that they convoy arrives. I have to revert the CAP from the CV back over the CV, and divert some planes from PM to fly CAP over the convoy until she pulls into port. The same thing happens whent the convoy is done, and the CV TF returns to shadowing.

What happend once was, my convoy had just unloaded, and was pulling out. The same turn, I had directed my CV to resume shadowing. There were P-39s (which suck royally btw) over the convoy, but they hadn't joined up with the CV yet. The convoy got attacked by Bettys and Nells (and with Zero escorts to boot), and he killed 3 freighters. They had already off-loaded, but it still irked me. These things happen tho. I've gotten other lucky opportunities against Knavey, and netted far more than 3 freighters.

Oh well. For me, large convoys are the way to go, until Knavey pulls something really clever out of his bag of tricks to convince me otherwise.

-F-

I tend to use large convoys to supply the major bases(Rabaul, Shortland) then use barges to supply the outlying bases. Later in the game when the air attacks become more deadly, I may change the barge convoys to routine single-barge TFs in a steady stream to their destination. I find single ship TFs are less likely to be attacked so I also use them to evacuate troops. I don't know what the point loss is for a barge but they do suffer greviously (especially from subs). Still, they can keep a small base alive.

Thanks for your thoughts, guys. If nothing else, I'm finding that larger convoys make more sense in sub-infested waters. (I'm playing as the IJN in Scenario 17 vs the AI.) Better to have 3 or 4 escorts for each large convoy than 1 escort (or none) for lots of smaller convoys.

That's why I asked about enemy air, Feinder; at the beginning of this scenario, subs are a much bigger threat to my convoys than Allied air. For that reason I'm using larger convoys for now. And your point about AAA may persuade me to stick with this as the air threat grows. I don't have any CVs to spare for shadowing duty, though; they're too busy destroying enemy CAs (bwuhaha).

I know, I know, I gotta get me a PBEM opponent. Once I finish this game, I swear I will... What's amazing about this game is that it's fiendishly addictive even against the AI.

Barges are worth zero victory points.

All the more reason to use them then:) And when they get sunk I don't sweat it unless they are evacuating troops:(