Matrix Games Forums

I have made a lot of comments on a lot of subjects in my day (comes from being an aries and opinionated:) ).

One thing I have noticed though, is a lot of people that are vocal on a subject, restrict where they are being vocal. They are often only vocal among their peers that are already sold.

Ok I play computer wargames, but I am first and last a board gamer. Why am I here, because as I said, I play computer wargames as well.

I am not on a board game site lamenting the actions directions and intents of computer wargames, simply because, making those lamentations on a board game forum, is going to have no impact mostly.

When I am disgusted with how the paper and pencil roleplaying hobby of Dungeons and Dragons is seen by the lunatic fringe as being "satan worship" or some shade of evil, I don't cry and whine in the pages of the Dragon.
The last I checked, religious loonies didn't read the Dragon.

When some tells you that playing wargames makes you some sort of warmonger, it does no good to cry about it in here either. You need to write in to a newspaper and protest. Put a comment in a magazine. Write an article and send it to where your detractors live.

I once had a nice long conversation with a couple of Mormon Missionaries about gaming subjects. Lasted about 2 hours. I don't think I got far, but I did make them listen to me while they were asking me to listen to them.
In the end I got them to realise, they will get more respect from me, if they respect my views.

So for those that are certain Les is some wierd dinosaur, always wondering "if he hates computer wargaming why is he here?", I am here, because I am a wargamer first and last.
I am an advocate of board gaming even though I will play some computer versions.

And I am not afraid to go where the comments need to be offered.

The best place to sell RTS for instance, is on a board game forum.

Les,

While I understand your point (at least I believe), I disagree with you about one point : I'm not a computer wargamer only. When time/space allow I play board wargame/figrurines. I dont see myself stick to one genre (i.e computer). Unfortunately, only computer *and* internet allowed me to play/discuss about wargames.

LC.

Ludivic, I doubt anyone here is just a computer gamer.

I have yet to meet a person that is only just one sort of person I suppose.

When I game on my computer, 9 times out of 10, I am playing a quick game of Worms World Party. It's funny quick easy, and is a neat program.

I hardly ever hear anyone mention the game though.

I love to play Steel Panthers immensely. The only reason I am a well enough known personality on some forums, is because I like to play Steel Panthers as much as I do.

But my average day often sees me not play more than one or two turns of my current ongoing game.

My old grognard buddy has been largely AWOL since fall 2001. I think he has had a major upset in his personal life though. He moved to a new house, one that is shared, and as such isn't to open to the usual amount of board gaming. That and he is always busy now.
So I have not gotten in near as much board gaming last year, as the year before that. I played a fair bit of A3R in 2000.

In 2003 I expect I will continue to stew waiting for Combat Leader to be completed. It might be a christmas gift if things go as they look like they might.
So I expect I will be playing mostly Steel Panthers in some guise.

I recently lost access to a woodshop. So now I am more or less at home. I might end up moving in 2004 to scrounge up a new house so I can conjure up a basement workshop. If that happens, I suspect I will see a lot less time devoted to wargaming.
This year, 2003, might see me get full swing back into my model collection as well.

I had expected this winter to be entirely different. But my parents moved last fall, and botched a lot of assumptions hehe.

Last spring I wrote a number of short fictions (I am a writer of sorts). I expected to do a good bit of writing, but my lifestyle conditions zigged when I expected them to zag. So I have postponed writing a while.

I am a fan of paper and pencil style rolegaming. I was just getting back into the swing of it, when my folks moving made me all but unavailable through most of the fall's gaming with the gang. That and I had been for some time wanting to run a game of Alternity (a scifi design). But several spits and spurts later, I have decided to run it as a cliche fantasy genre setting. So i have tweaked the design to allow me to use the system, but I have weeded out the tech aspect of the design.

What I have found comical about a lot of the camp that insists computer wargaming absolutely must push forward with fancier games and all that, is it is being said in a lot of cases as if board gaming is dead, and the survival or wargaming depends on the computer.
I for one think they are possibly entirely wrong.
it is possible that only the survival of "computer" wargaming is at stake. The survival of wargaming ina general sense, might not be at any risk as a whole at all though.

I'm not sure I know what the real subject of this thread is. I understand that you express yourself on those forums that you think best serve the purpose, although I would think that trying to change the minds or habits of strictly board gamers would best be done on their forum, since that's mostly where it seems you would reach them.

The big question is, why try to change them? My own experience is that people are what they are - an incredibly profound piece of philosophy, I'll admit - but true nontheless. They either want new interests, or they don't. generally, they seem to resent too much exposure to new things.

I enjoy hearing about outside interests because I'm made that way. I'm not a big fan of board games, but I do find the discussions interesting. doesn't mean I'll expand or convert, though. If I were, however, I would hand around boardgame only forums to get a sense of how it went.

Ah, well...you can lead the old warhorse to water, but can you get him to stop charging everytime he hears the bugle?

Im too young to have played war-board games but Id like to try some...just one problem...I have absoultly no one to play them with.

Has any company put a board game into computer format exactly like it is except the comp does the number crunching for you?

Fallschirmjager, at this time I am unaware of a defacto board game existing as a computer program that essentially does all the actual calculations.

But that would in essence simply be a computer game sans AI inclusive.

Steel Panthers for instance as a Battle with two persons playing hotseat or whatever, is basically ASL minus the need to calculate all the minutae.

The Art of War is basicallly capable of playing myriad divisional level board game equivalents if the sides are human controlled.

Strategic Command is essentially a game closing on the complexity of Advanced Third Reich, but only comparable as a board game minus calculations burdens, if you play it only against another person.

My main beef with a lot of computer wargames that have no alternate way of being, other than the player vs the AI, is that the AI is rarely any challenge.

Currently, the efforts to make literal board game wargames computer interface functional is just beginning. I am not going to say this method of gaming will ever be a major player in the wargaming market, but that there are those out there that wish to play this way, is obvious through the link in my sig.

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1

My main beef with a lot of computer wargames that have no alternate way of being, other than the player vs the AI, is that the AI is rarely any challenge.

Les, I am still of the view that the best way to play any game is against another human.

You have said a number of times that you enjoy sitting down and playing a board game against yourself. Whilst the AI is not very challenging, I would have thought that a game against yourself would be no challenge at all.

I am suprised that you do not appear to be a regular player of Steel panthers PBEM.

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
One thing I have noticed though, is a lot of people that are vocal on a subject, restrict where they are being vocal. They are often only vocal among their peers that are already sold.

I think that's understandable. There's comfort in numbers. I just like to read most of the postings and if something strikes me then I'll respond and occasionally get into a thread. Mostly it's just random. Just my two bits.

Thats too bad les....

I do kinda disagree though....Board games tend to be alot more complex than do their comp game counter parts...the complexity makes up for their lack of graphics.


I was kinda referring to that streets of stalingrad post someone posted...Id love nothing more than to play that game...ita price ($160) and Like I mentioned earlier that I have no one to play with would be a detrement...

I kinda wished I had joined the army for nothing more than to have a group to play war-board games with :p

I guess it's just my nature heheh. After all, how many here will willingly engage Mormon Missionaries in a casual chat heheh.
Nice guys and all, but they are a tough sell eh.

I might play more Steel Panthers Pbem, but there is a lot of old dog in me sometimes.

I have tried a few games, but they fizzled out after a handful of turns. I don't think I am aggressive enough, or perhaps playing me is to far down the pecking order heheh.

Playing against one's self though is very challenging actually. You know every move the opponent is going to make eh . And it is hard to be unbiased in those calculations. All you have is the dice to make it all work.

Fortunately you can do this with any turn based computer game that can play hotseat. I have not yet had to do this with Steel Panthers though, but there are a lot of good scenarios, and the Mega Campaigns take a while to play to death.
And if you are like me, and don't recall every aspect of the game from last playing, they retain a decent amount of replay worth.
The AI is thankfully reasonable in Steel Panthers Mega Campaigns.
It might just be that there is enough to do and handle, that even an average compuer AI will keep it interesting to a point.

My words are not golden, but I have had them printed in quite a few magazines now. I write into Macleans magazine frequently. An opinion not aired, is not an opinion eh.
And you won't get much out of an opinion, if everyone is already supportive of it.

OMG SARGE AND MEINE KAMERAD BOARDGAMERS, FORGIVE ME. I FORGOT TO INTRODUCE MYSELF.....I AM CHAIRMAN SLAAKMAN, PRIME MINISTER OF THE MONTEREY WARGAMERS CLUB BASED IN MONTEREY COUNTY CALIFORNIA. THIS YEAR WILL BE A GREAT YEAR FOR BOTH COMPUTER GAMING AND BOADGAMING ALIKE! HERE IS A PARTIAL LIST OF OUR SELECTION;

MORE THAN 2 DOZEN BOARDGAMES. HERES A SAMPLE OF OUR INVENTORY----

SPI- INVASION AMERICA, KURSK, OPERATION TYPHOON, WAR IN THE EAST, WAR IN EUROPE(HOPEFULLY SOON)

AH- FORTRESS EUROPA, RUSSIAN CAMPAIGN, AFRIKA KORPS, BATTLE OF THE BULGE, PANZER LEADER, PANZER BLITZ, SQUAD LEADER

COMPUTER GAMES----

TOAW;COW- EUROPE AFLAME
CC3RR MOD
CC3AFRIKA MOD
CC3FRANCE40 MOD
CC3PACWAR MOD
CC3FINNISH MOD
CC3KURSK(STARFURYMOD)
CC3ROMANIAN MOD
CC5GJS
STARCRAFT BROODWARS;ARMAGEDDON
AGE OF EMPIRES-AGE OF KINGS

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY THE PBEM SITES

BOARDGAMERS.ORG
VASSAL
HEXWAR.COM*
RUSSIANCAMPAIGN.COM

*HEXWAR.COM IS A PRIME SITE FOR IMMEDIATE ACTION AT THE MOMENT. WE ARE CURRENTLY INVOLVED IN MORE THAN 4 OPERATIONS THERE.

CHAAAAAAAAAAAAARGE!!!
KAMERAD SLAAKMAN:D

Slaak I hope you realise that posting sensible, useful posts is going to harm your carefully cultivated reputation eh heheh:)

Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
Thats too bad les....

I do kinda disagree though....Board games tend to be alot more complex than do their comp game counter parts...the complexity makes up for their lack of graphics.


I was kinda referring to that streets of stalingrad post someone posted...Id love nothing more than to play that game...ita price ($160) and Like I mentioned earlier that I have no one to play with would be a detrement...

I kinda wished I had joined the army for nothing more than to have a group to play war-board games with :p

If you're in college, often you'll find there is a board gaming club or something similar. The people are often 'different' , kinda like a star trek convention, but, if you're looking for an opponent to play for 8 hours each weekend, this is a good way to go.

Reiryc

Not sure this is a "fair comment"

"The people are often 'different' "

Stereotypes do no one any good in the long run. They are not much better than prejudicial slurs or nasty labels.

Sure it's human nature to categorise people, but it still doesn't help anyone.

To date I have never met a totally "ordinary" person, in this hobby or any other.
In one line of work or another, in one nation or another, or one culture or religion or another.

By looking past our perceptions we often find we are all mostly alike, just occasionally possessing varied interests.

That's why I am often of the position, that wargaming will live today tomorrow and on into the future. Because there will always be some that like wargames.

It's all in how we sell it, and how we sell oursleves.

If we call ourselves names, then people will invariable accept our opinions of our group.

SARGE YOUR EVADING THE POINT AS USUAL. ARE WE GONNA DANCE OR WHAT?! DO I HAVE TO GET NASTY? DONT MAKE ME HAVE TO PUT MY FOOT INSIDE OF YOUR A$$!!!NOW GET OUT ONTO THE BATTLEFIELD AND DRAW PARDNER!!
SLAAKATTAK:p

Hmm if you don't behave yourself Slaak, I am going to tell my wife she's fat and then lock you in a room with her:) .

And i think it is important to remark, she is not a signitory to the Geneva Conventions either.

Fallschirmjaeger: essentially, Steel Panthers was a board game converted to PC, or that's how it always seemed to me. You move, the AI moves, and all calculations including fuel, ammo and morale are handled by the game AI for both sides.

SARGEEPOO- OOOH A CLOSET?!! WITH YOUR WIFE?!!! NOW WE'RE GETTING SOMEWHERE!! UH IS YOU WIFE A "GO'ER"? DOES SHE GO? NUDGE NUDGE WINK WINK SAY NO MORE! SO TELL ME GOV'NOR ARE YOU A MAN OF THE WORLD?? HAVE YOU DONE IT WITH A LADY?? HAVE YOU?? SO TELL ME, WHATS IT LIKE??
SLAAKATTAK

Twice a day every day Slaak.

Why get married if you ain't going to make use of the option eh.

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
Not sure this is a "fair comment"

"The people are often 'different' "

Stereotypes do no one any good in the long run. They are not much better than prejudicial slurs or nasty labels.

Sure it's human nature to categorise people, but it still doesn't help anyone.

To date I have never met a totally "ordinary" person, in this hobby or any other.
In one line of work or another, in one nation or another, or one culture or religion or another.

By looking past our perceptions we often find we are all mostly alike, just occasionally possessing varied interests.

That's why I am often of the position, that wargaming will live today tomorrow and on into the future. Because there will always be some that like wargames.

It's all in how we sell it, and how we sell oursleves.

If we call ourselves names, then people will invariable accept our opinions of our group.

Basically they are a bunch of les's...so be warned

Reiryc