Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:18 pm**

First thanx for all the help on other things i have asked about. Have long campaign going british against the germans 1941. Am for the first time trying out the infiltrator button. But need some help setting up. Must i set up in deployment stage. Also where do i mark the hex at . I mena do i have to do on map edge behind enemy lines or do i put the hex mark near or at the place i want them to attack. Also how do i know when they will arrive or if they will arrive. Right now i have them in the rear of a hill i want them to take. Has a good view of my line of march. This is located about a third of the way in from the back map edge, east side of board. I am attacking from the west. Also when i play german i assume the spec ops are infiltrators and rangers for americans. But what do i use for japan. Thank you for any help on this.

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:45 pm**

Originally posted by robot
First thanx for all the help on other things i have asked about. Have long campaign going british against the germans 1941. Am for the first time trying out the infiltrator button. But need some help setting up. Must i set up in deployment stage.

YES, OTHERWISE THEY WILL REMAIN ON MAP AND ACT AS NORMAL GRUNTS.

Also where do i mark the hex at . I mena do i have to do on map edge behind enemy lines or do i put the hex mark near or at the place i want them to attack
.
NEXT TO THE PLACE YOU WANT THEM TO APPEAR/ATTACK. REMEMBER TOUGH, THE FARTHER FROM YOUR LINES YOU PLACE THEM, THE MORE UNLIKELY THEY WILL APPEAR.

Also how do i know when they will arrive or if they will arrive.

YOU CANNOT KNOW FOR SURE, TILL THE MOMENT THEY’LL ARRIVE.AND THIS IS GOOD, FOR REALITY’S SAKE.CHECK YOUR TROOPS’ LIST, YOU’LL SEE THE "INFILTRATING" WORD NEXT TO THEM; THEN AFTER A CERTAIN # OF TURNS, YOU’LL SEE INSTEAD “T#”, WHICH STANDS FOR “TURN#” (OF APPEARANCE). IF YOU SEE A “T99”, FORGET ABOUT THEM…

Right now i have them in the rear of a hill i want them to take. Has a good view of my line of march. This is located about a third of the way in from the back map edge, east side of board. I am attacking from the west. Also when i play german i assume the spec ops are infiltrators

YES

and rangers for americans.

YES

But what do i use for japan.

I DO NOT KNOW.

Thank you for any help on this.

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:53 pm**

For Japan, nothing. They don't have any 'special forces' class units.

Voriax

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:59 pm**

You select where on the map you want them to appear. I won't have them infiltrate to, say a VH because I would rather have them pop up unseen at first and weigh my options depending on what they can see. (Most VH's are under observation, and possibly occupied by the enemy, especially if playing against the AI. Humans realize that they are prime pre-start bombardment targets and will not necessarily occupy them. The AI ain't always so smart.)

The further away from your starting line that you want them to appear, the longer (generally) it will take them to arrive. For that reason, highly mobile, elite troops with a good recce rating will tend to appear quicker. Note that sometimes they will not bloody well show up at all, if the distance is too great and time is too short.

I haven't used them in a while, but IIRC, then you set the troops to infiltrate and it will ask you where you want them to go before the scenario starts, exactly when, I don't remember..

Hope this helps more than hurts...

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:05 pm**

I'd like to say thanks for the input as well. Although I knew these things, it's nice to see them confirmed.

I've given up on infiltrating special forces - they're too expensive and carry real nice weaponry that I don't want to gamble away. Also, they have a tendency to infiltrate one by one, or in pairs at best. This makes them dead meat if spotted. :rolleyes:

Only fun thing is to have them infiltrate right in the middle of the enemy's armor advance. :p Usually they pop up and go out in a ball of flame, including the closest ironclad neighbor.

still one helluva expensive trade. As normally deployed grunts, they can cause five times that amount of damage, easily...

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:34 pm**

I love them! Kill, kill, kill! That's what Rangers do! Lol! Arty=dead meat with Rangers around!:mad:

Goblin

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:59 pm**

Originally posted by Goblin
I love them! Kill, kill, kill! That's what Rangers do! Lol! Arty=dead meat with Rangers around!:mad:

Goblin

Not if you have assigned units to protect your arty park.... standard deployment procedure (at least for me!)

Result: Dead Rangers...

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:13 pm**

Thanx for info. I like to use differant things in the long campaigns. Have used paras a lot. I like using them for the diversity of it. Besides the german paras are elite. First time use of the special forces and such tho. Am into turn 7 of german vs british circa 1941. So far no sign of them yet. Have put them bout two thirds down the length of map, near but maybe 8 hexes away from rear VH behind a hill. Side bar!!! How do i start new paragraph. Sorry but am a clutz on this typing thing a ma jig. You would think after 71 years i would know how to use the keyboard. But for some reason my memory does not serve me too well. Heck a lot of things dont serve me too well these days.

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:15 pm**

After you finish your first thought, hit the enter key and it will drop you down a line.

Then finish your next thought.

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:17 pm**

Thanx Jim for advice.
Wow easy ehhh.

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:20 pm**

Like most of life, it's knowing which button to push. lol

Posted: **Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:49 pm**

Commandos are great if an opponent is not prepared for them.

My favorite use is to block roads or sit quietly until some opportunity arises.

The commandos are much more effective with C/C turned on.

Posted: **Fri Jan 17, 2003 4:37 am**

Originally posted by Voriax
For Japan, nothing. They don't have any 'special forces' class units.

Voriax

Not quite true, you are forgetting the militia units that start being available July 45.

They are armed with lousy weapons but are the largest of the spec-op squads at 25 men each.

Don't try to defend the home islands without them.
thanks, John.

Posted: **Fri Jan 17, 2003 6:08 am**

Originally posted by john g
Not quite true, you are forgetting the militia units that start being available July 45.

Oh yes, 'Guerrilla forces' class. Forgot that one.

Voriax

Posted: **Fri Jan 17, 2003 7:53 am**

Hey, Robot!

Special Forces are tough to get right. When they work, they can turn a battle. When they don't... Well...

Your best bet is to deploy the as standard infantry, except elite and with better armaments. Once ALL of the units' experience is up to at least the 90's, preferrably 100+, then you can start expect them to show up on an infiltrate mission.

There's never any guarantee, though.

Posted: **Fri Jan 17, 2003 8:05 am**

Hmmm. I've found that distance from deployed hex to target hex has little or nothing to do with arrival time. So you might as well leave your Infiltrators along the back hex row.

If, however, you deploy them in an area that receives bombardment on turn 0 (like your front line), they might take casualties and then arrive understrength when they come back on to the map. (They're never supressed from the bombard tho'

)

Whether the arrival hex is enemy occupied or not doesn't seem to matter, either.

I deploy infiltrators much as Jim1954 said. Try to determine where rear area security and artillery parks might be placed and arrive at some point not too distant, but not too close as to be immediately obvious.

Infiltrators set along possible reinforcement routes is also handy. It provides you with a heads up on any reinforcements arriving and you have a force in place to pester them with. But I find the intelligence they can gather by being quiet, handier than a brief exchange of weapons fire.

You can also position them to arrive with a view of the far side of the inevitable 'Smoke Wall'. It can be really handy to watch your opponent maneuvering his units along his side of the battleline.

As far as Rangers go, I'd rather have them on the front line rather than infiltrating. They're too expensive and too good not to have up front. Give me a USMC LRP for infiltrating reconn anyday!.

Posted: **Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:26 am**

The british commandos worked out well. Out of 12 planned to come on all but 4 made it. Had put them to far back on the map. Now i know better. They took the 2 rear VHs. Also they took out 5 mortors. All in all cant complain for first time use of them.
Want to thank all the replies. Going to try special forces for germans in next campaign. Will plan it a little better this time. Hope for 100 % infiltration. Maybe combine them with a para drop that they can help back up.

Posted: **Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:17 am**

Originally posted by robot
The british commandos worked out well. Out of 12 planned to come on all but 4 made it. Had put them to far back on the map. Now i know better. They took the 2 rear VHs. Also they took out 5 mortors. All in all cant complain for first time use of them.
Want to thank all the replies. Going to try special forces for germans in next campaign. Will plan it a little better this time. Hope for 100 % infiltration. Maybe combine them with a para drop that they can help back up.

I tested about a year ago and then the infiltraters seemed to come in on a bell curve distribution, with a 2 die 6 + 2 total giving the turn of arrival. The exception to this is that it seemed if a unit rolled a two or twelve on the dice they didn't come in, so in the bell curve there were no units coming in on turn 4 or 14. The test was with high experiance units, up near 100 experiance. With lower experiance units the factors may change.

You should always expect to see some units not arriving unless you are exceptionally lucky. You will also see them spread out over roughly 10 turns of arrival. If you want better chances of getting there, use paras or gliders if available, the problem with the UK is that commandos are available long before paras are.

If you try para drops vs the ai in a WWII campaign, be sure to delay the drop, the ai manages to have its units hit the front line at the same time by deploying faster units further back. I made the mistake one time of dropping a company and a half of paras near the rear vic hexes in a meeting engagement. There I dropped in the middle of roughly 3 companies of tanks, after the massacre, there were only two squads left from the para drop.

If I had delayed the drop (by cancelling then setting drop turn) I could have dropped in after the tanks moved forward.
thanks, John.

Posted: **Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:13 pm**

Seeing as the subject is on commandos.

Not sure what years these are but ive noticed thise when i use british troops in most years.

In infantry section you have two unit types:

SAS Squads and Commandos platoons

If you click on SAS Plt you go in and usually you will see 2-3 10 man commando squads, but not elites, if you go out but then click back into the same one youll see the same but plus a 6-man SAS Squad, but still not elite.

If you click on Commandos Plt you have the normal 'Elite' 2-3 10 Man commando squads.

What i dont get is why the SAS Squads arnt elite but the commandoes are, when SAS got and do get additional training ontop of commando training.

Another thing im not too sure about, maybe this is why they arnt elite. I seem to have more success infiltraiting SAS, than i do commandos, this includes the 10 man squads in the SAS Plt section.

This is 7.1 BTW.... oh and i have loads off fun infilltraiting 9 squads of 6-man SAS squads into villages and then just not moving them till i have most of my squads. Tears the place up

Posted: **Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:09 pm**

I am playing a river crossing pbem right now. So I tried to infiltrate some Soviet partisans mainly to give my opponent something to do while I organize to cross the river.

The first squad infiltrated right on a bunker!

The second squad to arrive was 1 hex away from an engineer squad.

The third squad arrived very near the above two.

Needless to say, the partisans took heavy casualties. But they did manage to shoot up the enemy engineer unit.

I am sure they are acting as a magnet to draw Japanese troops away from other areas. That may turn out to be an asset.

Worst case is, it has added a bit of excitement to the battle.

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Thanx

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workin out ok

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