Matrix Games Forums

Interesting video on the Chinese Navy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ4gV9mRsMM

It is interesting...at first I thought you were talking about in the game...pretty much just some rusting wrecks...the IJN got a couple of pseudo-cruisers from the Chinese though.

Thanks a crapload. I got so excited that I ran out and enlisted...[:D]

There is NO OT tag. Where is the OT tag? I looked at this and wasted seconds of my life [:@]

Then wasted several minutes complaining about it [:D] I don't type very fast [:(]

Er..ships?

That video is almost entirely CGI. It's propaganda from the Chinese state media.

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

That video is almost entirely CGI. It's propaganda from the Chinese state media.

Quite nicely done, though. Propaganda? You mean, they don't have what the "propaganda" says?

Fred

ORIGINAL: Leandros

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

That video is almost entirely CGI. It's propaganda from the Chinese state media.

Quite nicely done, though. Propaganda? You mean, they don't have what the "propaganda" says?

Fred

Remember the Soviets from the fifties. I believe they had a few bombers, for example, but during the parades in red square they flew around a few times to make the appearance of having more than they did....GP

ORIGINAL: General Patton

Remember the Soviets from the fifties. I believe they had a few bombers, for example, but during the parades in red square they flew around a few times to make the appearance of having more than they did....GP

Much more practical than flying all the bombers to Moscow....[;)]

Fred

ORIGINAL: Leandros

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

That video is almost entirely CGI. It's propaganda from the Chinese state media.

Quite nicely done, though. Propaganda? You mean, they don't have what the "propaganda" says?

Fred

Maybe they do, but I bet it doesn't work quite so Action Movie Awesome as it does in the CGI [;)]. Without actually researching it, I'd say more probably that this is just hype for planned/prototype vessels.

There are some still shots of an aircraft (maybe a few aircraft) on a carrier deck. They're just sitting there. Then they show a guy with a sword, and a flag, and some marching sailors. Then a sub-launched missile (cruise, from the looks of it), and then 3 submarines at sea and some destroyers sailing around. Then a helicopter taking off.

And then we get into CGI territory. That aircraft carrier with the skijump sailing by itself is 100% CGI, but then they transition to actual footage again with people walking on the deck, and then a plane taking off of a ski jump (it might not even be the ship that's supposed to be in the CGI part). Then you get a shot of a pilot in the cockpit, which is real footage. Then it immediately goes back to CGI with the planes in the air above the carrier. Even the hospital ship shortly after looks like it might be CGI.

I'm not saying they don't have a fairly modern navy, just that this video is designed purely to make them look awesome and badass and scary. It's not exactly a video of "what China's navy has" until the end - but Wikipedia has a list of that stuff too, and comes with a bonus dose of context. It didn't occur to me until now, but "fake it until you make it" has more applications than just in the entertainment business.

ORIGINAL: Leandros

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

That video is almost entirely CGI. It's propaganda from the Chinese state media.

Quite nicely done, though. Propaganda? You mean, they don't have what the "propaganda" says?

Fred

The video doesn't really mention that the pride of the PLAN (they seriously should have renamed it just the PLN by this point) is a second-hand carrier from the Russians that was built in the mid 80's and used as a training ship.

That's not to knock the Chinese military establishment. What they're doing in the South China Sea is very, very clever. I'd love to see the cost-breakdown of building a Nimitz class versus that of dredging up an islet in the South China Sea and building an airbase on it. Sure, you can't move an islet, but you do get that protective air bubble to operate from, and at a much cheaper cost.

Those islets also have the advantage that you can repair them pretty easily once they're bombed. Supercarriers require a bit more work than a shovel and spade to repair.

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Leandros

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

That video is almost entirely CGI. It's propaganda from the Chinese state media.

Quite nicely done, though. Propaganda? You mean, they don't have what the "propaganda" says?

Fred

The video doesn't really mention that the pride of the PLAN (they seriously should have renamed it just the PLN by this point) is a second-hand carrier from the Russians that was built in the mid 80's and used as a training ship.

That's not to knock the Chinese military establishment. What they're doing in the South China Sea is very, very clever. I'd love to see the cost-breakdown of building a Nimitz class versus that of dredging up an islet in the South China Sea and building an airbase on it. Sure, you can't move an islet, but you do get that protective air bubble to operate from, and at a much cheaper cost.

Those islets also have the advantage that you can repair them pretty easily once they're bombed. Supercarriers require a bit more work than a shovel and spade to repair.

Newly created islets in international waters have the disadvantage that the International Court can declare them illegal and order them abandoned/destroyed. If the Chinese refuse, then by precedent anyone can build an islet close to their borders. And the beat goes on ... [8|]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Leandros




Quite nicely done, though. Propaganda? You mean, they don't have what the "propaganda" says?

Fred

The video doesn't really mention that the pride of the PLAN (they seriously should have renamed it just the PLN by this point) is a second-hand carrier from the Russians that was built in the mid 80's and used as a training ship.

That's not to knock the Chinese military establishment. What they're doing in the South China Sea is very, very clever. I'd love to see the cost-breakdown of building a Nimitz class versus that of dredging up an islet in the South China Sea and building an airbase on it. Sure, you can't move an islet, but you do get that protective air bubble to operate from, and at a much cheaper cost.

Those islets also have the advantage that you can repair them pretty easily once they're bombed. Supercarriers require a bit more work than a shovel and spade to repair.

Newly created islets in international waters have the disadvantage that the International Court can declare them illegal and order them abandoned/destroyed. If the Chinese refuse, then by precedent anyone can build an islet close to their borders. And the beat goes on ... [8|]

Yeah, "can" declare them illegal. How long do you think the IC will take to come to a decision on that case? Even if they do, what difference does it make? See Nicaragua v. United States for one example.

Let's assume they find against China, and within a reasonable time-frame. It gets kicked to the UNSC where China can just veto it down, and then the islet issue has to be settled by boots on the ground or ships at sea, of which China has vastly more off than the Philippines & Vietnam.

Even a small shooting war in the South China Sea is against everyone's interest, so that's why the USN says hello to the Chinese dredgers regularly, and the PLAN gives textbook demonstrations in passive-aggressive naval strategy to the Vietnamese and Philippines.

It isn't just Vietnam and the Philippines that have bones to pick with China. South Korea and Japan and Indonesia have issues too, and they have some money, and US backing.
The island was built to strengthen the claim to resources in the area. Other people could do similar things and claim access to resources China thinks should be theirs. Heck, why not build one right next to the Chinese one. Anyway, the whole island-building thing just seems hokey to me. Call it "gamey" - you can do it but your opponent might do the same thing to you.[:D]

Mostly junks.

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

It isn't just Vietnam and the Philippines that have bones to pick with China. South Korea and Japan and Indonesia have issues too, and they have some money, and US backing.
The island was built to strengthen the claim to resources in the area. Other people could do similar things and claim access to resources China thinks should be theirs. Heck, why not build one right next to the Chinese one. [:D]

They are doing that. Both the Phillipines and Vietnam have island building operations in the Spratleys backed by the US. But they lack the will and the bankroll to do it at the pace China is doing it.

Yes, and the Philippines also grounded a ship as a sort of Marine garrison... the budget version alternative to island building
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-south ... HN20150714


So all stakeholders are playing games... it is just that the Chinese have bigger pockets

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Yes, and the Philippines also grounded a ship as a sort of Marine garrison... the budget version alternative to island building
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-south ... HN20150714


So all stakeholders are playing games... it is just that the Chinese have bigger pockets

Hey, that looks like an LST! I think the rust is hiding the M&M Enterprises logo ...[:)]

Yes it is [;)]

USS Harnett County (LST-821) from WW2

transfered and renamed RVNS My Tho (South Vietnam navy) and then BRP Sierra Madre (Philippines navy)

Look at that bucket of rust. They had to ground it to keep it from sinking.[:D]