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OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:12 pm
by crsutton
Can anyone help me with the four ribbons to the right of this photo? This guy was a WWII Navy pilot who flew PBY Liberators.
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:38 pm
by SqzMyLemon
I believe the last two are European African Middle Eastern Campaign ribbons.
Could the two blue ones with gold trim be Presidential Unit Citations?
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:08 pm
by crsutton
ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
I believe the last two are European African Middle Eastern Campaign ribbons.
Could the two blue ones with gold trim be Presidential Unit Citations?
I thought that at first but he served in the Pacific. As far as I know he did no service in the ETO.
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:29 pm
by geofflambert
I'm no expert but according to this
http://militarybest.com/us-army-europea ... plate.html Sqz is right. I see an Italian flag, a French flag, and I don't know what.
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:33 pm
by geofflambert
According to this as well.
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:47 pm
by geofflambert
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:49 pm
by geofflambert
The light blue one resembles the MOH in color. Should have stars on it though, and no gold border.
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:05 pm
by crsutton
Ok that clears it up. Turns out that he did serve in the Middle East around the time of the Tunisian campaign but eventually ended up in the Pacific. Now what are the little stars on the two bottom ribbons for?
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:00 pm
by wdolson
It means he got the ribbon more than once. I doubt he wore both of the bottom ribbons at the same time. He probably wore the one with one star, then wore the one with two later.
One of my father's ribbons has multiple stars, but I don't recall which one now. He was involved in the air campaign up the north side of New Guinea, was with the first B-25 unit at Tacloben after Leyte, then was involved in a project flying B-29s out of Saipan early in that campaign, then ended up on Attu in the summer of 1945. He was with the 1st Motion Picture unit and they were sent into the field in late 43 to try and get footage for an USAAF version of the Fighting Lady. He said they never got anything that could be put into a movie like that. He pointed out that on a carrier the action comes to you, but with ground based aircraft, especially later in the war, you went to the action.
Bill
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:30 am
by rogueusmc
ORIGINAL: crsutton
Can anyone help me with the four ribbons to the right of this photo? This guy was a WWII Navy pilot who flew PBY Liberators.
The ribbons are duplicates of each other for different purposes. If you will notice one of each ribbon is slightly larger than the other one. The smaller of the ribbons were worn on a ribbon rack when just the ribbons on the left breast are worn. When in class 'A' service or dress uniform, Unit awards are worn on the right breast and are larger than the ones in the personal awards worn on the left breast. If the unit awards are worn, the corresponding ribbon on the left breast are removed.
Semper fi,
Lee
PS...the lower one with only one star is missing a star. If it was a single star, it would have been centered...
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:42 am
by geofflambert
Here's that light blue one
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:54 pm
by geofflambert
Incidentally, here's the PTO ribbon. Did he not have one?
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:59 pm
by crsutton
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
Incidentally, here's the PTO ribbon. Did he not have one?
He should, because that is where he flew the PBY Liberator. His daughter found those medals on a shelf in her basement. I have asked her if she can dig up his squadron. I can then find out where they were assigned.
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:40 pm
by John 3rd
Very cool. Get them framed...
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:28 pm
by crsutton
She has an interesting family. Her grandfather on her mother's side was Dutch Bergman. He was once coach of the Washington Redskins and instrumental in getting RFK Stadium built in the 1960s. If you ever go to a Redskins game you will see his name on the stadium's wall of fame. More interesting to me is that he flew a two seater Spad in WWII. and his elderly daughter (her mother) has a couple of photo albums of his from that era. Some amazing photos that I believe have never been seen by anyone but family. I am really pushing her to allow me to do some scans. I want to send some to the Air and Space Museum and perhaps the Air Force Museum.
He played football at Notre Dame under Rockne and was both the Gipper's backfield running mate and room mate. He also coached Catholic University during it power years and still holds the record for the most wins there.
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:41 pm
by GI Jive
Now what are the little stars on the two bottom ribbons for?
The little stars are campaign service stars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European- ... gn_Medal-2 . Each star represents a "campaign" in the theater that corresponds to the ribbon. Service members would have had only one ribbon for each theater in which they served. The stars indicate how many campaigns he participated in in that theater. "Oak leaf clusters" are used in the manner described by wdolson. That is, on ribbons awarded for individual merit, multiple awards of the same type are designated by oak leaf clusters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_leaf_cluster
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:58 pm
by TSCofield
The two top ribbons are Presidential Unit Citation awards. The top is the 'older' version, the second is an updated version for 'modern' uniforms from the Vietnam era until now. I suspect it was a replacement.
The Presidential Unit Citation would have been worn above the name tag and not with the other, individual ribbons. A Presidential Unit Citation is an award for a unit, not for an individual. People that were part of a unit during the period that the award was issued have the right to wear the award perminantly but people assigned to the unit after the award is given only wear it while part of the unit.
The other was the Middle Eastern Medal which others have described. I'm sure he had a few others as well.
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:40 am
by wdolson
ORIGINAL: crsutton
She has an interesting family. Her grandfather on her mother's side was Dutch Bergman. He was once coach of the Washington Redskins and instrumental in getting RFK Stadium built in the 1960s. If you ever go to a Redskins game you will see his name on the stadium's wall of fame. More interesting to me is that he flew a two seater Spad in WWII. and his elderly daughter (her mother) has a couple of photo albums of his from that era. Some amazing photos that I believe have never been seen by anyone but family. I am really pushing her to allow me to do some scans. I want to send some to the Air and Space Museum and perhaps the Air Force Museum.
He played football at Notre Dame under Rockne and was both the Gipper's backfield running mate and room mate. He also coached Catholic University during it power years and still holds the record for the most wins there.
I'm familiar with the slang term for the Skyraider which was "Spad" and there was the WW I Spad, but I'm not familiar with anything flying in WW II called a Spad. Is that a typo or something I'm not familiar with?
Bill
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:45 pm
by crsutton
ORIGINAL: wdolson
ORIGINAL: crsutton
She has an interesting family. Her grandfather on her mother's side was Dutch Bergman. He was once coach of the Washington Redskins and instrumental in getting RFK Stadium built in the 1960s. If you ever go to a Redskins game you will see his name on the stadium's wall of fame. More interesting to me is that he flew a two seater Spad in WWII. and his elderly daughter (her mother) has a couple of photo albums of his from that era. Some amazing photos that I believe have never been seen by anyone but family. I am really pushing her to allow me to do some scans. I want to send some to the Air and Space Museum and perhaps the Air Force Museum.
He played football at Notre Dame under Rockne and was both the Gipper's backfield running mate and room mate. He also coached Catholic University during it power years and still holds the record for the most wins there.
I'm familiar with the slang term for the Skyraider which was "Spad" and there was the WW I Spad, but I'm not familiar with anything flying in WW II called a Spad. Is that a typo or something I'm not familiar with?
Bill
Sorry Bill, that was a mistype. My friends maternal grandfater, Dutch Bergman. played for Notre Dame and left school during WWI. He served 17 months in Europe in the army air corp and then returned to Notre Dame post war to finish his schooling. See is bio here.
http://www.cuacardinals.com/sports/fbal ... ture_story.
My friend,s dad who passed away a few years ago was the pilot who flew the PBY Liberator in WWII, and those are his ribbons that I posted above. However it is sort of a mystery to me because I only know of his service in the Pacific, not in the ETO. And those do seem to be campaign ribbons from the Med campaign. Trying to follow up and will post here when I find out more.
RE: OT-Little help with WWII ribbon IDs.
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:44 pm
by crsutton
This is the owner of the ribbons Bob Monahan in the cockpit of his Ventura patrol bomber. The squadron flew Venturas early on and transited to PBY Liberators in the last year of the war.
