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A bit OT: French ship design in the Napoleonic era
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:36 pm
by Alpha77
British vs. French Shipbuilding
The Baden Analysis
By Peter Lienau and Stuart Slade
Updated 11 February 2000
Here:
http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-057.htm
RE: A bit OT: French ship design in the Napoleonic era
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:27 pm
by Alfred
That book will be out of date when Symon's book get published in a coupe of years.
Alfred
RE: A bit OT: French ship design in the Napoleonic era
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:57 pm
by geofflambert
ORIGINAL: Alfred
That book will be out of date when Symon's book get published in a coupe of years.
Alfred
What does he say about Ian Toll's
Six Frigates? I had heard (around the time
Master and Commander came out (the movie) that the American frigates were based on a French design. Toll doesn't support that.
RE: A bit OT: French ship design in the Napoleonic era
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:13 am
by crsutton
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
ORIGINAL: Alfred
That book will be out of date when Symon's book get published in a coupe of years.
Alfred
What does he say about Ian Toll's
Six Frigates? I had heard (around the time
Master and Commander came out (the movie) that the American frigates were based on a French design. Toll doesn't support that.
What Toll says (and I was completely unaware of) was that the framing for the early American frigates was not just made of oak but " American live oak" An incredibly dense and strong wood. Give the American ships an armor rating of 1. While the French and British have a rating of zero...[;)]
RE: A bit OT: French ship design in the Napoleonic era
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:47 am
by geofflambert
ORIGINAL: crsutton
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
ORIGINAL: Alfred
That book will be out of date when Symon's book get published in a coupe of years.
Alfred
What does he say about Ian Toll's
Six Frigates? I had heard (around the time
Master and Commander came out (the movie) that the American frigates were based on a French design. Toll doesn't support that.
What Toll says (and I was completely unaware of) was that the framing for the early American frigates was not just made of oak but " American live oak" An incredibly dense and strong wood. Give the American ships an armor rating of 1. While the French and British have a rating of zero...[;)]
We have something called Missouri yellow pine. You cannot drive nails through it without drilling holes first.
It is nonetheless highly prized by carpenters because it's like iron. When I was younger and renovating stuff, I had to deal with Missouri yellow pine framing. I had Yankee screwdrivers and drill bits to use with them. Those Yankee screwdrivers were like having battery powered screwdrivers except they were powered by you.
You cannot drill holes in MO yellow pine with a Yankee and I doubt you would do well with an augur. In old houses here, generally brick ones, the framing is Missouri yellow pine. I don't care if it's Paul Bunyan with the blue ox backing him up. If you try driving a nail, doesn't matter if it's a four penny or a sixteen penny, if you try to hammer that through you will have a bent piece of steel wire.
RE: A bit OT: French ship design in the Napoleonic era
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:59 am
by geofflambert
ORIGINAL: crsutton
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
ORIGINAL: Alfred
That book will be out of date when Symon's book get published in a coupe of years.
Alfred
What does he say about Ian Toll's
Six Frigates? I had heard (around the time
Master and Commander came out (the movie) that the American frigates were based on a French design. Toll doesn't support that.
What Toll says (and I was completely unaware of) was that the framing for the early American frigates was not just made of oak but " American live oak" An incredibly dense and strong wood. Give the American ships an armor rating of 1. While the French and British have a rating of zero...[;)]
I'm getting old. Forgot that detail somehow.
RE: A bit OT: French ship design in the Napoleonic era
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:02 am
by Alpha77
Does someone read the article ? It comments mainly on what they call "myth" of better French ships in the 1800s and also a bit of better German ships in WW1..
RE: A bit OT: French ship design in the Napoleonic era
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:55 am
by fcharton
Read it. It is as you say, about French ship design being a myth. Some of the arguments are probably valid, but it sounds like a diatribe, and this weakens his point. Also, the fact that he cannot even write correctly the one French name he mentions (droits de l'homme) makes one wonder about the author's ability to read from French sources (especially the various plans and devis, which document the design, construction and performance at sea, and should be, much more than letters from sailors from prize crews, the primary sources for such a comparison).
As Alfred said, Symon's opinion on this would be very interesting.
Francois
RE: A bit OT: French ship design in the Napoleonic era
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:22 pm
by Hermit
ORIGINAL: crsutton
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
ORIGINAL: Alfred
That book will be out of date when Symon's book get published in a coupe of years.
Alfred
What does he say about Ian Toll's
Six Frigates? I had heard (around the time
Master and Commander came out (the movie) that the American frigates were based on a French design. Toll doesn't support that.
What Toll says (and I was completely unaware of) was that the framing for the early American frigates was not just made of oak but " American live oak" An incredibly dense and strong wood. Give the American ships an armor rating of 1. While the French and British have a rating of zero...[;)]
They didn't call USS Constitution "Old Ironsides" without reason.