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Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:24 pm
by jwolf
Another basic rookie question here. Playing as Allies, various Japanese ground units appear with different shading from dark red to a lighter red. Why the difference, and what does it mean?
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:33 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: jwolf
Another basic rookie question here. Playing as Allies, various Japanese ground units appear with different shading from dark red to a lighter red. Why the difference, and what does it mean?
It could be my eyes or maybe my monitor, but any VERY slight differences in colors I see has to do with the depth of the stack in the hex. The deeper the color the more units in the stack. Single LCUs are sort of washed out.
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:45 pm
by Capt Hornblower
The differences in shading have to do with the troop density in the hex-- the more troops, the darker the color (subject to fog of war, of course).
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:47 pm
by jwolf
Hmmm ... so if I see a dark red Japanese sprite but the mouseover only says "1 unit" then that is a sign that my recon is badly missing something?
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:08 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: jwolf
Another basic rookie question here. Playing as Allies, various Japanese ground units appear with different shading from dark red to a lighter red. Why the difference, and what does it mean?
It could be my eyes or maybe my monitor, but any VERY slight differences in colors I see has to do with the depth of the stack in the hex. The deeper the color the more units in the stack. Single LCUs are sort of washed out.
Maybe it's IJA vs. IJN? There are two "nations" for ground (and air) units on the Japanese side.
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:22 pm
by dr.hal
This is not a rookie question, but a good one that I've wondered about but never asked about. I was inclined to believe as Lokasenna does, that it has to do with differing subgroups (not "nations" which is a word based upon a sociological concept) of the main group. Thus bright yellow might mean the IJA while the darker version is the IJA... let alone a mix of the two! I believe I've seen this with other state forces. However I've never put this to the test. I've never considered it a reflection of density. So now I'm not sure.
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:53 pm
by jwolf
Would there be any IJN ground units in the middle of China?
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:34 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
This is not a rookie question, but a good one that I've wondered about but never asked about. I was inclined to believe as Lokasenna does, that it has to do with differing subgroups (not "nations" which is a word based upon a sociological concept) of the main group. Thus bright yellow might mean the IJA while the darker version is the IJA... let alone a mix of the two! I believe I've seen this with other state forces. However I've never put this to the test. I've never considered it a reflection of density. So now I'm not sure.
I'm fairly sure it doesn't reflect "density" of a unit stack, but what do I know? Maybe it does.
I am pretty sure it has to do with the nationality of the unit.
ORIGINAL: jwolf
Would there be any IJN ground units in the middle of China?
I think there are a few. Base forces and small SNLF-types, particularly around Shanghai and maybe Canton/Hong Kong? I'll check when I run my Japan turn today.
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:33 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
This is not a rookie question, but a good one that I've wondered about but never asked about. I was inclined to believe as Lokasenna does, that it has to do with differing subgroups (not "nations" which is a word based upon a sociological concept) of the main group. Thus bright yellow might mean the IJA while the darker version is the IJA... let alone a mix of the two! I believe I've seen this with other state forces. However I've never put this to the test. I've never considered it a reflection of density. So now I'm not sure.
I mostly spend my time looking at Allied stacks. There you can have brown icons, green icons, yellow icons all in the stack. I've never noticed brown under green, for example, being a color mix of the two. But I do see at least two shades of green when the stack is high or just one.
Watch this be in the manual now. [:)]
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:09 pm
by HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: jwolf
Another basic rookie question here. Playing as Allies, various Japanese ground units appear with different shading from dark red to a lighter red. Why the difference, and what does it mean?
It could be my eyes or maybe my monitor, but any VERY slight differences in colors I see has to do with the depth of the stack in the hex. The deeper the color the more units in the stack. Single LCUs are sort of washed out.
I know this has been conventional wisdom for some time, but I have had a hard time accepting it when I see many contradictions.
Many times a see a deep blood red icon and presume it is a huge stack only to discover one unit in the hex after recon.
I contrast this by examining a pale red washed out icon and discover a huge stack.
I've become convinced that conventional wisdom must be urban legend and the depth and intensity of color is completely random or an element of FOW.
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:29 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: jwolf
Another basic rookie question here. Playing as Allies, various Japanese ground units appear with different shading from dark red to a lighter red. Why the difference, and what does it mean?
It could be my eyes or maybe my monitor, but any VERY slight differences in colors I see has to do with the depth of the stack in the hex. The deeper the color the more units in the stack. Single LCUs are sort of washed out.
I know this has been conventional wisdom for some time, but I have had a hard time accepting it when I see many contradictions.
Many times a see a deep blood red icon and presume it is a huge stack only to discover one unit in the hex after recon.
I contrast this by examining a pale red washed out icon and discover a huge stack.
I've become convinced that conventional wisdom must be urban legend and the depth and intensity of color is completely random or an element of FOW.
I know I don't put any stock in the colors.
Might be some kind of bleed from the terrain art. I don't have the technical smarts to know what is drawn first, or if that even matters. But like you I can see a pale rose red for some Japan units, and a deep blood red for others.
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:33 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: jwolf
Another basic rookie question here. Playing as Allies, various Japanese ground units appear with different shading from dark red to a lighter red. Why the difference, and what does it mean?
It could be my eyes or maybe my monitor, but any VERY slight differences in colors I see has to do with the depth of the stack in the hex. The deeper the color the more units in the stack. Single LCUs are sort of washed out.
I know this has been conventional wisdom for some time, but I have had a hard time accepting it when I see many contradictions.
Many times a see a deep blood red icon and presume it is a huge stack only to discover one unit in the hex after recon.
I contrast this by examining a pale red washed out icon and discover a huge stack.
I've become convinced that conventional wisdom must be urban legend and the depth and intensity of color is completely random or an element of FOW.
Keep in mind also that your very own eyeballs are going to be influenced by the color of the hex itself. Example:
https://dmsp.digital.eca.ed.ac.uk/blog/ ... -illusion/
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:34 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
It could be my eyes or maybe my monitor, but any VERY slight differences in colors I see has to do with the depth of the stack in the hex. The deeper the color the more units in the stack. Single LCUs are sort of washed out.
I know this has been conventional wisdom for some time, but I have had a hard time accepting it when I see many contradictions.
Many times a see a deep blood red icon and presume it is a huge stack only to discover one unit in the hex after recon.
I contrast this by examining a pale red washed out icon and discover a huge stack.
I've become convinced that conventional wisdom must be urban legend and the depth and intensity of color is completely random or an element of FOW.
I know I don't put any stock in the colors.
Might be some kind of bleed from the terrain art. I don't have the technical smarts to know what is drawn first, or if that even matters. But like you I can see a pale rose red for some Japan units, and a deep blood red for others.
I think this is probably the phenomenon I just posted about [;)].
Also, I looked it up - there are at least a dozen IJN LCUs on the ground in China. A few SNLFs, a smattering of base forces, and the China Area Fleet itself.
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:32 pm
by wdolson
All nationalities have three shades for ground units ranging from light for small units to dark for the largest units. The gradients are easier to see for some colors than others.
Bill
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:10 am
by dr.hal
Thanks Bill for clearing it up.... do you have a divide as to what constitutes small, medium and large? I assume corps is the large... Divs are medium?
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:14 am
by wdolson
I don't recall offhand, and there is FOW when viewing enemy units. The LCU icon on the map is also just the top of a stack and if you have many units in a hex, you are just seeing the color of the top unit, which could be any one of the units in the hex. It's not a great indicator. I looked at fixing it a bit, but it got really messy.
Bill
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:49 am
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
Thanks Bill for clearing it up.... do you have a divide as to what constitutes small, medium and large? I assume corps is the large... Divs are medium?
Pretty sure divisions are large - when I have looked at the units the dark red ones are always divisions. A Brigade or regiment would likely be medium and Battalions/Companies and support units are likely "small".
I think only the Chinese field Corps as single units?? Other nations may have units under a Corps HQ but each unit would have its own dot and colour.
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:15 am
by Lokasenna
Nice to know. Also make note that the "top" unit is always the furthest left on your LCU list in the main game screen. Click on a hex and down at the bottom, that horizontal list of LCUs (the icons) - the one that is to the farthest left is the top one in the stack.
RE: Coloring of enemy units
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:50 pm
by jmalter
I used to think that the color-gradient was an estimate of the stack's supply-state, but that turned out to be wishful thinking on my part.
Currently, I think it's an estimate of the stack's top-most unit-size, subject to FoW.