CVE eats planes!!!

Veer · Post by **Veer** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 11:22 am

Playing 2.20, Scen 17, historic, as IJN.

Here's the deal: I had lost a CV about 30 days ago (the Soryu), but had managed to save some of it's aircraft which spent the next month bumbing around at Rabaul.
I received the CVE Unyo (?) and thought it would be a good idea to base the planes on it. So i did so. I checked to see it they have arrived safely, then forgot about it.

3 turns latter i checked the CVE again, and NO planes. They had just vanished! They weren't anywhere on the map - i checked all the bases.

Is this a bug? Or were the planes withdrawn? I am naturally skeptical of basing any more planes on my CVE, what should i do?

Yamamoto · Post by **Yamamoto** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 8:51 pm

It’s been long known that the CVE Long Island eats plane groups but this is the first I’ve heard of a Japanese CVE eating planes. I thought all Japanese CVEs came with there own planes, unlike the American ones.

Were the plane groups you added full groups of just fragments? I.e. did they have a “1/” in front of their name?

Yamamoto

CapAndGown · Post by **CapAndGown** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 11:03 pm

I just had a plane remnant dissappear from a CVL. This was a remnant of 13 Vals left over from when the Shokaku sank. I decided to park it on the Shoho while moving the Kates ashore. Low and behold, next turn the Vals had dissapeared.

It strikes me that something may be wrong with the way game data is saved to disk. I would speculate that some data may be lost when it is read back. On the other hand, if you saw the problem when playing against the AI with out any saves, then this speculation is wrong. Or perhaps the game data used during the orders phase has a slightly different format as that used during the execution phase?

At some point I will try to recreate this problem.

XPav · Post by **XPav** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 2:17 am

Send the save to Matrix.

Hell, I'll try and duplicate it and send it to Matrix.

CapAndGown · Post by **CapAndGown** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 4:37 am

The problem with sending a save is that I never have the "before" turn. If I had the "Before" and "After", I think they could find the problem pretty quick and fix it.

Deathifier · Post by **Deathifier** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:00 am

The bug of CVE's eating planes was supposed to be fixed a while ago.

I've been running the Long Island around first with Wildcats (forgot marine groups grow to 24 though...) and now marine SBD's.

Been sailing around for months with 3 CV's, all of which now have 30 sys damage after taking one too many bombs.
During that time there have been no problems attacking ships, subs, airfields. No issues getting reinforcements and so on.

The planes were initially transfered whilst the LI was out to sea as well.

Perhaps it is an issue dealing with remnant squads without any parent squad?

Could the game be rejoining the remnant with the non-existant parent, thus having the effect of removing them from the game?

- Deathifier

Veer · Post by **Veer** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:55 am

Originally posted by cap_and_gown
The problem with sending a save is that I never have the "before" turn. If I had the "Before" and "After", I think they could find the problem pretty quick and fix it.

I'll recreate it and see what happens. I have a save of few turns before I transfered the planes to the CVE.

eMonticello · Post by **eMonticello** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 9:21 am

Unfortunately, Long Island is still a black hole. I thought it was fixed as well. I'm playing the last scenario to give the AI as much of an advantage as possible. After Yorktown was heavily crippled by a sub, Lady Lex had to fend for herself against the IJN carrier taskforce (most troubling was when her air groups decided to fly over the Stanleys to attack a bunch of transports instead of attacking the carriers only 90 nmiles away

) Needless to say, I lost her that day. After a few days of air activity in PM, the carrier task force withdrew and I transferred the remaining air groups to Cairns until LI arrived for transport to Noumea. After transferring a 14 a/c remnant of VS-2 to LI, I noticed that it just disappeared. Oh well!

Grotius · Post by **Grotius** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 10:32 am

I just received the CVE Unyo (?) myself, Veer, and for the last couple of turns I've left it sitting in Truk, in part because I read this thread. Can carrier aircraft fly combat missions off of it, or is it solely for transport? If the latter, I'll probably just send it back to Tokyo.

Deathifier · Post by **Deathifier** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:17 pm

Missions can fly off CVE's, they seem to act like slow mini carriers.

Which is really what they are

- Deathifier

Wilhammer · Post by **Wilhammer** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 1:40 am

I have been running the Long Island up and down the map with Marine SBDs on board flying ASW missions at 50%, and have not lost a plane yet.

I have not seen this bug, but it could be because of the way I use that ship. I have never sent it out to strike anything. Always I put SBDs or Avengers on board, a couple of DDs, and send it on following orders as an ASW Air Combat TF.

(BTW, I also use those 28 capacity CVEs the same way, I got into this habit in the beginning because of this bug, and come to find out, it works wonders to keep pesky I-boats down)

It is intersting the mention of partial squadrons vanishing. Partial squadrons and Air Combat TFs at SEA have strange behaviour.

Typically, I find when I transfer a squadron with planes in repair or reserve to a CV, I wind up with one of those faux A-20B groups on deck, that only go away when I get the TF to a port.

That is PIA, because it takes up one of the five slots (the maximum number of air units on a CV) that endangers squadrons when you have a diversion situation.

If the planes have nowhere to divert to, they just fall into the sea and vanish from the game.

bilbow · Post by **bilbow** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 7:13 am

Will,
The bug may have something to do with flying the planes onto the LI rather than loading them in port. Several months ago, I flew a TBD squad on to the LI at sea and verified it's presence. The next turn it was long gone and never seen again. I have never tried this again. That ship is haunted.

I have many times used it as a plane transport, even flying the planes off, but never on.

Did you load the squad in port? Or fly it on at sea?

Wilhammer · Post by **Wilhammer** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:49 pm

Always in port do I load 'em. When the LI arrives, I usually have 2 or 3 SBD squadrons in Noumea on ASW, and I just transfer one of those to the LI.

Every chance I get, I load Naval Air at a port, since it is so efficient; no fatigue, you can change your mind (the transfer buttons don't gray out), and no operational losses.

About the only time I transfer at sea is with the big CVs; replacing worn squadrons from the CVE's or Land bases.

Does this bug always repeat itself?

For example, should I let the LI set sail first, and then fly the SBDs on board, those SBDs will vanish?

bilbow · Post by **bilbow** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 9:42 pm

The disappearance only happened to me once, becasue since then I've never dared use the LI as a carrier. Transport only for me.

Joel Billings · Post by **Joel Billings** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:29 pm

I've tried to duplicate by flying a unit onto the CVE. It worked fine for several turns. Could easily be a partial unit problem. I need a save that allows me to recreate the bug in order to have a chance to fix it. Send saves to 2by3@2by3games.com. Thanks.

Veer · Post by **Veer** » Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:01 pm

Please look in the main UV forum. I attached a save there. I can't post it here for some reason?

edit:
look in the X-Files Episode #37: The Mysterious Case of the Long Island by cap_and_gown.

Caltone · Post by **Caltone** » Sun Feb 09, 2003 11:57 pm

I'm betting its the partial group thing. In one of my current games, I have a complete sqaud of Zero's (27) on the Unyo and they fly LRCAP just fine.

Before I put this whole sqaud onboard, I had sent a partial one there, they promptly disappeared within a few turns. I had sent thier parent Cv with parent unit back to Tokyo and I believe thats where they went.

Joel Billings · Post by **Joel Billings** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 7:48 am

We've fixed the partial air unit problem with CVE's in the version we are currently working on. No ETA yet on the release of the patch.