Matrix Games Forums

As I'm trying to learn the WiF system (playing solitaire) I was blindsided by a couple of things.

I transported the Nigerian Territorial to the Estrn Med. but was not able to disembark unit into
Egypt or Palestine. My options were Malta or Cyprus. Apparently Territorials can not enter other
territories?

The BEF moved from France into Belgium, I then attempted to withdraw them back to Calais. I could move
Gort back but not the corp or division. At the time a UK transport and a Belgium air unit was in France.
I assume the restriction on moving the rest of the BEF back to France is related to Foreign Troop Commitment
rules. I'm not sure however why this is the case. Any explanations.

Appreciate any input.

Thanks.

The TERR have issues where they can move (by the rules). They cannot move in other TERRITORIES pratically.
Same will be for mixing units of Minor Nations aligned in hexes. (For example you won't be able to mix a Nigerian TERR with a British Somaliland TERR; or even a Netherland Unit with a Belgian Unit)

About the second point, you're very correct.
Gort has a HQ capacity of 2 - which covers up for the TRS and Air Unit (how they where in France without a HQ is a mistery to me though as you said Gort was moving back).
A total of 2 CW units should be able to stay in France + Gort present.

The Brits moved Gort and the corp into France prior to the transport bringing in the Mot. XX.
I don't recall if Gort and the corp left France prior to the division landing. The Belgium aligned
with France, so even with the transport sitting in a French port I thought I would be able to withdraw
Gort and the corp back into France but I couldn't. I was willing to sacrifice the XX. Is Gort able
to support two other units under these rules? Or is it Gort plus an additional?

Gort allows himself plus two other units. Not land units, units. Thus Gort plus a TRS plus an air unit uses up all his capacity. Do not put anything but CW land units in France. Do not sail CW TRS into French ports. Move to sea and unload from there.

About TERRs. The CW has two sorts of TERRs: those from CW minor countries, and those from CW home countries. Those from minor countries may not enter any other Allied minor countries. (Note that this means that the Uganda TERR can not ever leave its home country, baring an unlikely Axis conquest of one of its neighbors.) TERR from CW home countries may enter any Allied minor country, although they do not cooperate with minor country units aligned to other Allied major powers.

The CW starts with two middle eastern TERR. It has 22 others. 10 of them are from CW home countries, 12 of them are from CW aligned minor countries. If the only TERR the CW had were the 10 home country units, they would be very good value. As it is, the CW is better off buying regular units.

My confusion is that the Belgium air unit is aligned to France, not the UK. So I don't get why it impacts
the UK foreign troop commitment limit. I aligned Belgium with France when the option came up fearing
I would not be given the option of aligning with the UK. Again, I've read the rules but still learning
as I go.

I agree with your point concerning the territorials. I built them for a quick/cheap way to reinforce the Mideast
while regular troops where in production. I would have been better to build garrisons or militias.

It has been a game of mistakes on both sides. The Japanese went after Southern China as opposed to knocking
out Mao. Granted, the Nationalists are in full retreat and have suffered losses. I thought securing
the rail lines and resources between Nanning and Changsha, as well as the rail from Canton to Changsha
was the best start before the northern monsoons let loose.

Thanks for your time, much appreciated.

On China: it's not that bad to try to take out the Nationalists before the communists. The rail from Canton to Changsha is a pretty important one and there are two resources you can capture in southern China too. However, if you decide to do this, you better make sure that you've got enough in China to keep the Chicomm from running around behind your lines. That's often more difficult as compared to take on the Chicomm first.

A Belgian unit can only enter France, if it is aligned to France. If not, the Belgians cannot enter France at all, because they don't have a HQ to satisfy Foreign Troop Commitments. A French aligned Belgium doesn't count for CW FTC at all.

Gort and a CW TRS are in Calais. This means automatically that any other CW land unit can only debark during a land action or a combined action into Calais, since a loaded naval unit can't enter a French port anymore.

ORIGINAL: Cohen

The TERR have issues where they can move (by the rules). They cannot move in other TERRITORIES pratically.
Same will be for mixing units of Minor Nations aligned in hexes. (For example you won't be able to mix a Nigerian TERR with a British Somaliland TERR; or even a Netherland Unit with a Belgian Unit)

About the second point, you're very correct.
Gort has a HQ capacity of 2 - which covers up for the TRS and Air Unit (how they where in France without a HQ is a mystery to me though as you said Gort was moving back).
A total of 2 CW units should be able to stay in France + Gort present.

Not so mysterious at all. They could have gotten into France after the land units got to Belgium, but while Gort was still in France.

Note that an HQ is needed to get the unit inside a country, not to maintain them inside.

Foreign troop commitments
A major power or minor country unit that ends any step in the home country of a friendly major power it doesn’t co-operate with is destroyed unless:
ï it started the step there; or
ï it started the step elsewhere and the unit satisfies the foreign troop commitment limit.

So Gort allows the TRS and FTR to get in France, then moves to Belgium, then he can come back but no more units because when they want to go back to France, without Gort they cannot because of FTR and if Gort gets in earlier, he suddenly is in charge of the air and naval units and cannot hold the land ones.

Belgium is a different matter than France because Belgium is a minor no matter that French Controlled, from RAW:

Foreign troop commitments
A major power or minor country unit that ends any step in the home country of a friendly major power it doesn’t co-operate with is destroyed unless:
ï it started the step there; or
ï it started the step elsewhere and the unit satisfies the foreign troop commitment limit.

I appreciate all the input. But the apparent effect of the Belgium unit on Gort's FTC capacity is
still a mystery.

1]Belgium is aligned to France.
2]A CW transport is sitting in a French port.
3]Gort and two CW ground units are in Belguim.

Why could I only move Gort back to France? Shouldn't I have been able to move one of the other
units back as well? What am I missing?

As it worked out I flew the air unit on a suicide mission into the hex where the last Belgium unit
was being attacked. Moved the transport out and was subsequently was able to slip all the CW units across the channel.
Maybe a bit premature but the outcome in France sealed.

Note on Foreign Troop Commitment and Co-Operation - Units that don't cooperate can enter each other's Home Countries, actually. They just can't end a step there or they are destroyed. So they can't be naval transported, moved, or retreated into a Home Country that the unit doesn't cooperate with.

Thus they can move across such hexes during the Movement phase, as long as they don't stop in a non-cooperating Home Country. I guess in extremely rare circumstances this could happen during a Retreat from land combat, that would probably be a good thing to bug-test in MWiF.

I'm not sure about the new Africa map in MWiF, but that technical caveat gave the Uganda TERR a way to get out of Uganda and into Italian territory, if I remember the Pacific-scale map of Africa correctly.

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Note on Foreign Troop Commitment and Co-Operation - Units that don't cooperate can enter each other's Home Countries, actually. They just can't end a step there or they are destroyed. So they can't be naval transported, moved, or retreated into a Home Country that the unit doesn't cooperate with.

Actually it was clarified in the 2009 FAQ that land units cannot even enter (and leave again) by land movement, although they can by rail movement and air and naval (rare) transport. This was from the famous debate over the CW sailing in a Div on an SCS to Hong Kong during a surprise DoW on Japan, then moving into an ungarrisoned Canton, and sinking, rebasing or even capturing the whole Japanese fleet; then moving back to Hong Kong.

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Note on Foreign Troop Commitment and Co-Operation - Units that don't cooperate can enter each other's Home Countries, actually. They just can't end a step there or they are destroyed. So they can't be naval transported, moved, or retreated into a Home Country that the unit doesn't cooperate with.

Actually it was clarified in the 2009 FAQ that land units cannot even enter (and leave again) by land movement, although they can by rail movement and air and naval (rare) transport. This was from the famous debate over the CW sailing in a Div on an SCS to Hong Kong during a surprise DoW on Japan, then moving into an ungarrisoned Canton, and sinking, rebasing or even capturing the whole Japanese fleet; then moving back to Hong Kong.

Paul, I have version 1.3 of the 2009 FAQ, and can not find the rule you just quoted. Is there a more recent versions of the FAQ, or am I just being blind?

Q18.2-11: "Japan DOWs USA, strikes Honolulu, Japanese fleet returns to Canton, without any ground troops. US SCS with INF division sails into Hong Kong on a combined, then moves into Canton then back into Hong Kong to end the land step. Rule 18.2 states that a unit cannot end a STEP in the home country of a major power it doesn’t cooperate with. The INF division didn’t. I claim this is a legal move. My opponent claims it isn’t because of foreign troop commitments. Who is correct?

A: "Your opponent. 11.11.5 forbids land movement into a non co-operating major power (China in this case) unless you satisfy the Foreign Troop commitment rule (see WiF 18.2).
Date 27/10/2008"

I'm fairly sure this was discussed when FTC was being coded in MWiF and MWiF does conform.

ORIGINAL: rea6897


I appreciate all the input. But the apparent effect of the Belgium unit on Gort's FTC capacity is
still a mystery.

1]Belgium is aligned to France.
2]A CW transport is sitting in a French port.
3]Gort and two CW ground units are in Belgium.

Why could I only move Gort back to France? Shouldn't I have been able to move one of the other
units back as well? What am I missing?

As it worked out I flew the air unit on a suicide mission into the hex where the last Belgium unit
was being attacked. Moved the transport out and was subsequently was able to slip all the CW units across the channel.
Maybe a bit premature but the outcome in France sealed.

Rea, sorry I was not clear before, let's try again:

1 I guess (or it would be a bug and I don't think so) that Gort was in France when the ship and plane got in.

2 Then he left France and joined the two ground units in Belgium, those ground units didn't need an HQ to get to Belgium because Belgium is a Minor Country (doesn't matter whose ).

3 When Gort was leaving France, the air and naval units had no problem because the rule only refers to getting inside the country, they can stay even if Gort leaves, if they started the step there.

4 Gort can go anywhere, he protects himself from FTC cause HQs are always included in their FTC ability, so he can go back to France.

5 The land units couldn't get in because once Gort gets inside France he automatically assumes the air and naval units as part of it's FTC capacity using it up. So the move of any extra unit ,like the ground units would violate the FTC.

6 If you had flied the plane and moved the boat you'd had been able to move the ground units to France because Gort's capacity would be free again (2). You could have sent the plane to UK instead of sacrificing it.

Re-reading your post you don't seem to realize that the air unit also uses some of Gort's FTC whn he gets back to France. You cannot move 1 extra ground unit because Gort is using it's FTC for the ship and the plane.

Thing is, according to the poster, the Belgians are aligned to France. This means that the Belgian FTR can enter France, since France cooperates with Belgium. So why can't Gort get another land unit into France, apart from the TRS? I don't get it. A gamesave might help here...

That does indeed seem to be what the majority of respondents here are missing. They assume Belgium was aligned to the CW and the FTR counts for FTC, which is not the case.

But it does appear that the game code is also assuming that. [;)]

O shet! I missed the fact that it was a Belgian FTR. True, Centuur & Paul.

Then it doesn't make sense if Bekgium is aligned to France, yes. Maybehe is wrong and instead he allied Belgium to CW, which should be the first thing the game would offer, according to the rules?

My confusion is that the Belgium air unit is aligned to France, not the UK. So I don't get why it impacts
the UK foreign troop commitment limit. I aligned Belgium with France when the option came up fearing
I would not be given the option of aligning with the UK.

But the first offer should have been CW, if I am not wrong. I have not been able to find it in the RAW (maybe it is in the Scenario book as well?), but I was told that the country with the closest capital city should be offered first, that would be CW (UK). Someone can confirm?



I think, if rea can, he should check this, for all would make sense if the Belgians were aligned to CW.

I can't upload image (7 day/10th post) but I went back to a saved spot and
the control flags in Belgium were French.


Thanks all for the attention given to what was eventually an insignificant problem.

Ok, then, it would look like a bug, to me.

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Q18.2-11: "Japan DOWs USA, strikes Honolulu, Japanese fleet returns to Canton, without any ground troops. US SCS with INF division sails into Hong Kong on a combined, then moves into Canton then back into Hong Kong to end the land step. Rule 18.2 states that a unit cannot end a STEP in the home country of a major power it doesn’t cooperate with. The INF division didn’t. I claim this is a legal move. My opponent claims it isn’t because of foreign troop commitments. Who is correct?

A: "Your opponent. 11.11.5 forbids land movement into a non co-operating major power (China in this case) unless you satisfy the Foreign Troop commitment rule (see WiF 18.2).
Date 27/10/2008"

I'm fairly sure this was discussed when FTC was being coded in MWiF and MWiF does conform.

Thank you. I spend quite some time looking a the FAQ, using search, and failed to spot this.