Matrix Games Forums

Playing Defending Meximieux scenario, one M18 controlled by AI chose to fire to a moving squad equipped with a Panzerschreck at 4 hexagons instead of a stationary Panther at 3 hexagons, in the same line of fire of the squad. The squad was broken but next phase the Panther was able to destroy the M18. Is this a correct choice for AI?

ORIGINAL: gbc

Playing Defending Meximieux scenario, one M18 controlled by AI chose to fire to a moving squad equipped with a Panzerschreck at 4 hexagons instead of a stationary Panther at 3 hexagons, in the same line of fire of the squad. The squad was broken but next phase the Panther was able to destroy the M18. Is this a correct choice for AI?

Yes, the AI will evaluate targets depending on the situation.

I think the OP is saying it should target the most dangerous threat, the Panther.

ORIGINAL: Gerry

I think the OP is saying it should target the most dangerous threat, the Panther.

Not necessarily, the AI has to be a bit unpredictable.

I understand, and I can agree as a matter of principle: but in this way the AI lost the game that it could win, it was my last Panther, without it I would have been unable to gain my objectives; and, basically, M18 was a tank destroyer.

It's nice for the AI to be a bit unpredictable: after all, how many times we thought "Damn, I should have fired on that ***". Sometimes, however, it just seems to make straight mistakes.

Today I watched idjester's video of "Buchholz Station" on YouTube: at 1:06' there are a C* leader and a German Engineer squad armed with a LMG. There are two adjacent US units: a M3 MMG halftrack (CE) and a B* leader with an half-squad armed with a MMG. The German squad didn't fire in its Defensive Fire Segment and not even in its subsequent Fire Segment... [&:]

Moreover, sometimes routed unit go back and forth from a cover hex to an open terrain hex several times, providing juicy opportunities for interdiction fire.

Just my two cents, but it appears to me the AI tends for the higher percentage shot. Either weapon system will wreck the Hellcat.

In ASL terms, the moving infantry is the better shot. It's a rough 65 percent chance to hit the Panther, but about a 90 percent chance to hit infantry moving in the open at 3 hexes. After that, it might be a 5 percent chance to kill the Panther with AP with a turret hit. The hull front of the Panther is thicker than Hellcat's penetration value. APCR raises the chance to 5 percent with a hull hit(65 percent of the time), and 40 percent with a turret hit. With an infantry hit, there's a 60 percent chance to break first line troops and 50 percent for elite troops. I don't even think that the AI will shoot the Panther without APCR.

ORIGINAL: genesismwt

Just my two cents, but it appears to me the AI tends for the higher percentage shot. Either weapon system will wreck the Hellcat.

In ASL terms, the moving infantry is the better shot. It's a rough 65 percent chance to hit the Panther, but about a 90 percent chance to hit infantry moving in the open at 3 hexes. After that, it might be a 5 percent chance to kill the Panther with AP with a turret hit. The hull front of the Panther is thicker than Hellcat's penetration value. APCR raises the chance to 5 percent with a hull hit(65 percent of the time), and 40 percent with a turret hit. With an infantry hit, there's a 60 percent chance to break first line troops and 50 percent for elite troops. I don't even think that the AI will shoot the Panther without APCR.

Right, and the AI does take special ammunition into consideration.

Ok, but in the previous turn the same M18 killed two Panther (front hits) one after another in the same fire phase at the same range, 3 hexagons: only an incredible AI luck?

Just for fun, I made a test scenario. setting up 10 M18 three hexes away from 10 Panthers G, facing the front aspect of the Panthers. If I remember the ASL To-Hit table, at this range the M18 should always hit the Panther, unless its MA breaks down (TH = 10 + 1 large size).

Firing AP, I obtained no kills and no immobilizations, either (2 M18's kept their ROF and fired 2 shots, so 12 shots = 0 kills)
Firing APCR, I obtained 4 kills and one immobilizations (3 M18's kept their ROF but killed the Panther with the first one, so 10 shots = 4 kills).

The probability of killing two Panthers in a row - according to this very rough test - is quite low (40% x 40% = 16%) but not negligible. I would not plan to take Panthers frontally, however, especially with M18's [:D] (not to mention that is against TD doctrine).

I have seen even stranger things happen in my ASL days, such as a Jagdpanther destroyed at 40+ hexes by a SU-152 with a critical hit (and an incredible stroke of luck). By the way, do critical hits (both AP and HE) exist in TotH?

Yes, Crutical hits for AP/APCR/APDS/HEAT and HE do exists

I stand corrected on my original figure of 65 percent as a chance to hit the Panther at 3 hexes. 10 +1 for a large target is correct.

ORIGINAL: UP844


I have seen even stranger things happen in my ASL days, such as a Jagdpanther destroyed at 40+ hexes by a SU-152 with a critical hit (and an incredible stroke of luck). By the way, do critical hits (both AP and HE) exist in TotH?

A snake eyes is a snake eyes at any range![:D]

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

Yes, Crutical hits for AP/APCR/APDS/HEAT and HE do exists

Thanks for the confirmation! I suspected HE Criticals existed during the initial playtest of the "Casa Berardi" scenario, when a 75mm HE round from a Sherman II of the Ontario Regiment razed to the ground the fortified building, eliminating a German B* leader, 3 Elite squads and 2 MMG [X(] (and making things much easier for the brave men of the 22eme Royal Regiment [:D]).

ORIGINAL: genesismwt

A snake eyes is a snake eyes at any range!

The German player was not amused at all (especially since he spent a lot of points to purchase that Jagdpanther [:D])