Matrix Games Forums

I am starting a new campaign game to the ‘Bitter End’ hopefully. Playing the Germans vs a really good hard core wargamer, but this is his first time playing the campaign after we have played a number of scenarios together.

I am not one that demands things to be perfectly historical, but also am not one that is more looking to bend the rules to the max in order to get a quick, decisive WIN. I am looking for a good historical simulation, and to have FUN in the process of doing it.

That said, I have played the campaign before and done the standard Lvov pocket on turn 1 and also sent my RR unit down to Rumania as normal to repair the rail from down there. I have also used the ‘Reduced Blizzard’ rule as everyone seems to do. In the interest of having a good, fun, much more historical game, albeit a tough one no doubt for the Germans, we are going to use the following setup/house rules for our new campaign game.

Bitter End scenario
Full FOW
Random Weather
Standard Blizzard
No +1 to Soviet Combat Odds

AGREED UPON HOUSE RULES:

1) We are using the 1.08.08 rules, so no need for the limit of 3 air attacks per hex per turn, although that is the limit, 3 air attacks per hex per turn (after turn 1).

2) No bombing of a HQ unit unless it is stacked with a ground unit

3) No Night Bombing of Airfields

4) No paradrops

5) No naval invasions before November 1941, none outside the 1939 Soviet borders before January 1943.. In addition if Sevastopol is either isolated, or in German hands, none west of the Crimea – which reflects the scope for air/naval interdiction not really reflected in the game.

6) No Lvov pocket

The Germans cannot move on turn 1 in such a way as to activate the Rumanians (this effectively ends the Lvov pocket and also keeps the Rumanians historical on turn 2).

In return, the Soviets are not to pull out the initial units of SW or S Fronts, nor the Stavka reserve formations west of the Dnepr, to anywhere north of the Pripet Marshes in 1941. The Soviets have full flexibility with 19th Army and 67th Rifle Corps (roughly the units around Cherkassy) as in reality some of these did take part in the Smolensk battles. The Soviets will attempt to fight the Germans west of Kiev as much as possible, and will retreat only when obvious encirclement danger is seen.

7) German RR units may not move thru Hungary or Rumania in 1941

What do you think? Am I crazy to do this as the Germans? This is MUCH more historical.

Just isn’t right to send the RR unit down to Rumania, that never would have happened, nor would the Germans ever been able to pull off a Lvov pocket on turn 1. I have read all the back and forth on the forums about doing or not doing the Lvov pocket, but it just doesn’t seem right at all to me. Much more historical to slog thru the SW front in a grind it out, smaller pockets kind of way. This seems more fun for both sides and also more historical.

Also, in addition to that, I just can’t play the reduced blizzard rule, we just played Operation Typhoon and that was the first time either of us had ever seen the 1st winter, and we used the regular blizzard rule, and, other than the morale loss issue (which is huge), it is survivable as the Germans, and it SHOULD be bad for the Germans that first winter. This is the Russian Front!

I no doubt will not be able to blitz thru his factories like some Germans do in 41 in the south, but that is OK. It will be a hard slog, but that is what makes it epic!

Randy

Call me old fashioned but I'm of a view that if the rules allow something to happen then a player should be perfectly within their rights to do it. You'll find that if you agree to those house rules then your attack will become stalled at the Dnepr river in the south and against a good Russian you'll struggle to get past Vyasma in the centre and the capture of Leningrad will be in doubt. You will then lose the game in late 43 or early 44 when Berlin falls. (My opinion).

The Soviet Union has both aircraft and paratroops. The player should be able to use them as he/she wants. Any naval landing will fail if the Axis maintains sufficient forces in reserve to counter them. I've not played a campaign against a human opponent for a few years but if I were to put my toe in the water again the only rules I would insist on would be full FOW for both sides.

+1, what he said! Immediately promoted, feldwebel (or, whatever)

ORIGINAL: Gefreiter Wardstein

Call me old fashioned but I'm of a view that if the rules allow something to happen then a player should be perfectly within their rights to do it.

As i see it, setting up 'house rules' is the same as having actual game rules, just makes the game stay within more historical, less crazy constraints, which i prefer in such a massive game as this. So, you set up whatever house rules seem needed, and then you play as hard as you can within those and within the rest of the regular game rules.

Now, that doesn't answer your other comment about whether allowing the SW front to 'get away' so to speak from immediate encirclement will create a situation where the Germans have too much of an uphill battle, given that the Soviets are very unlikely to allow many large encirclements as the real Soviets did. We are pinning those SW front forces in the south and making them fight forward of Kiev as compensation. Between that and the RR unit not going thru Rumania, i figure i will lose 2-3 turns of progress in the south or more on average, along with higher casualties, but not that much higher, so not the end of the world, but will mean not overrunning the factories before they have time to evacuate at the least. Yes, more forces will in front of Moscow and Leningrad, but not that much more i don't think.

If you aren't doing Lvov T1, can you do delayed Lvov ? In either case without Lvov I wouls insist the Soviets move on T1 such that all southern Axis Minors are immediately activate.

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

If you aren't doing Lvov T1, can you do delayed Lvov ? In either case without Lvov I wouls insist the Soviets move on T1 such that all southern Axis Minors are immediately activate.

The easiest way to eliminate the Lvov pocket maneuver is to simply not allow the Germans to activate the Axis Allies on turn 1, which also keeps that part historical, and is not that big a deal to lose as the Germans