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ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Cassius Marcellus Clay, Jr. (his "slave" name according to him). People want to remember him for positive reasons (his fighting, his late life philanthropy), and that's all fine and good. However, he did have a negative past (more than evading the draft), but I guess its best to leave it all alone and focus on the positives.

An interesting question is: who would have won if they had boxed each other in their prime? Clay/Ali or Mike Tyson? I think Tyson would have destroyed him.

I never liked boxing (and will never like it) but for some reason I watched the Tyson vs Douglas fight live on tv in 1990 (the first and last combat I ever saw). Somehow the vict... er Douglas managed to survive the initial ferocious assaults and... oh! He won in the end. Don’t count your chickens before they hatch.

ORIGINAL: demjansk

I have a question about his refusal to go into the Army.

I haven't heard this discussion yet and it's hypothetical.

If he went into the Army, would he have received a "Plum" assignment like boxing tours? I really can't see them sending him to Vietnam into an 11B unit and fighting the North Vietnamese and the possibility of getting captured.

I wonder if they did any under the table negotiating to get him waived instead of going the route that happened?

I am just curious and even though a lot of soldiers went into the army in ww2,some played baseball the entire time while others like Ted Williams flew fighter planes in both wars.

I just can't see them sending him to a front line unit. By the way, any of the other boxers drafted like Joe Frazier, Norton etc?

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: demjansk

I have a question about his refusal to go into the Army.

I haven't heard this discussion yet and it's hypothetical.

If he went into the Army, would he have received a "Plum" assignment like boxing tours? I really can't see them sending him to Vietnam into an 11B unit and fighting the North Vietnamese and the possibility of getting captured.

I wonder if they did any under the table negotiating to get him waived instead of going the route that happened?

I am just curious and even though a lot of soldiers went into the army in ww2,some played baseball the entire time while others like Ted Williams flew fighter planes in both wars.

I just can't see them sending him to a front line unit. By the way, any of the other boxers drafted like Joe Frazier, Norton etc?

warspite1

From what I have read (could be wrong) they tried to persuade him to change his mind with "plum" assignments, but he refused.

Bottom line, and the only thing I have to say on the subject, is this. I can well understand - indeed completely understand - those in the 1960's that were upset by Ali's decision. There were generations alive that had been through WWI and WWII, through Korea, and now there was this fit young man deciding he wouldn't fight for his country.

BUT

Knowing what we know, and with the world (At least trying) to move forward for the better, I have no idea how anyone can still be upset and not understand what he was at least trying to do. Here is a man that came back from winning gold at the Rome Olympics only to be called the Olympic _____. Here was a man that was refused a drink of water in a shop because of the colour of his skin. Well surprise surprise, he did not think that it was right he could be expected to live like that - and yet still be good enough to fight and die for rights he himself was denied.

And no, this is not aimed at bashing America (people that know me know that is not what I do) and the US is no different from ANY other country in having its episodes that it would rather wish it hadn't.

So let's celebrate the positives, let's celebrate a man that tried to make things better by raising awareness of issues that needed raising.

RIP [&o]