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http://nationalinterest.org/feature/tig ... yped-17334

That's one battle that I'd like to replay, but finding a game that would be relatively easy to manage and get into has alluded me. Seen a couple of older titles for this battle, but a bit leery of using them on a newer machine. A what if: If Manstein did what he wanted to do and ignored Hitler's recommendations..

It was a turning point for the Soviets and the beginning of the end for the Germans on the Eastern Front...hardly over-hyped! [8|]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk

The Russians had a spy stationed in Japan, code-named Lucy, that gave them almost all of the intel on the attack. Stalin knew what was coming and prepared for it. The attack never had a chance. Guderian told Hitler, "The world doesn't care if you take Kursk."

As for the Tigers that Caidin mentioned in his book (the one in the pic), these weren't really the Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger that is famous. The designer of this tank destroyer lost out to the Tiger Hitler chose. But he had 96 chassis built before the competing design won. So he mounted the 88 on it with no turret or machine guns and rushed them off to the battle. These actually did fairly well and destroyed 500 Russian tanks for the loss of a couple dozen. After the battle, the chassis were then rebuilt with a hull machine gun and became known as the Elefant.

ORIGINAL: wings7

It was a turning point for the Soviets and the beginning of the end for the Germans on the Eastern Front...hardly over-hyped! [8|]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk

The single turning point on the eastern front was the failed operation Barbarossa (neither Leningrad, Voronesh, Moscow nor Rostov taken).
1943 Kursk offensive was meaningless long term. Even when we assume a german major victory, so what? 2 month later the soviets have replaced everything and the steamroller is back.
Barbarossa late 1941 was the single turning point, not Stalingrad or Kursk. In 1943 there was no possibility to force USSR to surrender.

Similar to the people who claim El Alamein 1942 to be decisive. Sure, because germany could have supplied a big offensive towards suez in 1943 after a successful El Alamein...

ORIGINAL: Poopyhead

The Russians had a spy stationed in Japan, code-named Lucy, that gave them almost all of the intel on the attack. Stalin knew what was coming and prepared for it. The attack never had a chance. Guderian told Hitler, "The world doesn't care if you take Kursk."

More info on Lucy spy ring...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_spy_ring

Here is the Link to the Android Kursk Game from Joni Nuutinen, if you are interesteded in mobile games too.
No Gary Grigsby like simulation but entertaining game:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... kursk_demo

Btw: The tank Popyhead refers too (Ferdinand/Elefant) was designed by Ferdinand Porsche, the excellent engineer who developed the famous Porsche cars after WW2.

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
No Gary Grigsby like simulation but entertaining game:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... kursk_demo

Grigsby already covered Kursk...

Definitely some interesting information provided here, in the story and in our own forum comments. I'm pretty interested since I'm playing War in the East right now as the Soviets and it is the middle of summer 1942.

Kursk was big big big and guys always love big tanks in big battles to a point.

There have been other big battles with a lot of armour, but usually something makes the battle not make the cut. The last offensives between Russia and Japan seem under mentioned.

Some of the desert battles were big, but the armour wasn't the sexy late war armour.

ORIGINAL: E

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
No Gary Grigsby like simulation but entertaining game:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... kursk_demo

Grigsby already covered Kursk...

Yeah, A "1984" release....![:(]

So far I have both the Prokhorovka book

and Ponyrii book


Highwater marks of the southern and northern pincers.

The time right before Stalingrad was probably the last chance the Germans had on winning the war. But moving panzer divisions around like chess pieces and getting mired down was a loser.

What I always found more interesting than the battle at Kursk was the tank battle that raged at Prokhorovka 87 kilometers away from Kursk.

I have a modest sized board game of the Prochorovka battle actually. I've had it since the 80s so it likely has some bias in the details.

ORIGINAL: Ostwindflak

What I always found more interesting than the battle at Kursk was the tank battle that raged at Prokhorovka 87 kilometers away from Kursk.

Yes indeed...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Prokhorovka

I've always wondered if that idiot Hitler cancelled Kursk. But it would have probably just extended the bloodshed another year, if that.

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I have a modest sized board game of the Prochorovka battle actually. I've had it since the 80s so it likely has some bias in the details.

Nice, do you have any photos...box, counters, etc.?

I've always wondered if that idiot Hitler cancelled Kursk. But it would have probably just extended the bloodshed another year, if that.

Hitler was on meth the last 8 years of his life so he wasnt very rational. Withdrawing the 2nd SS Panzer Korps at the height of the battle to the outrage of Manstein was instrumental in their defeat. Guderians plan to play defense throughout '43 might have extended the war by 2-3 years.

ORIGINAL: wings7

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I have a modest sized board game of the Prochorovka battle actually. I've had it since the 80s so it likely has some bias in the details.

Nice, do you have any photos...box, counters, etc.?

That can be arranged.

Interesting read (especially those tank loss statistics), but I'm not sure about this:
"Germany had a choice: wait to be hammered by another offensive from the Russian steamroller, or take the initiative by launching its own offensive."
There was a third choice (Manstein's preferred option) which was to remove the bulge in the front by withdrawing German units from the North and South of the bulge to straighten the front, and then let the Russians attack and try and recreate his "backhand blow" of the Third Battle of Kharkov on a grand scale (i.e. withdraw in the face of the Russian attack and then counterattack and encircle the attackers).
I'm not sure it's "overhyped" either. It was the last opportunity the Germans had to gain the initiative on the Eastern Front.