Matrix Games Forums

Hi, I am doing some element editing.
and struggling with cover, protection and hindrance values.

IE: Cover Prone, Cover Low, Cover Medium, Cover High - Workbook states that the values signify the chance of an "accurate hit" on the target. Are these values for a Prone, moving and moving fast soldier? - Then what is cover high? Does it interact with vehicles and guns? If so how?
Does a high value make soldiers/vehicles harder to spot ?

Protection values - Prone, Low, Medium and High - How are these values applied by the game engine. - I am also wondering why even with a very high value for a certain terrain here - soldiers are still easily getting killed with direct fire weapons that should not be able to penetrate and kill in said terrain element.

Hindrance values - I understand the concept but whats the application of Prone, Low, Med and High values?

Maybe a couple of examples of the application of these values could be provided?

Thanks

Prone = laying stationary
Low = Sneaking
Medium = Moving
High = Moving Fast

Thanks for an answer. - I must ask : How sure are you that this is the way its implemented?
 
My theory after some testing is that "Prone" is for a soldier lying stationary as you say. But Low, Med and High I think is realated to the angle of the incoming round just like it is with vehicle armor values.
For HINDRANCE values I think you are right, but not for cover/protection.
 
Cover is the chance that the terrain "armor" (IE protection value) will get in the way of a shot. Also similar to how it is in the vehicle data.
 
What do you think?

Because low, medium and high also identify the 3 modes of soldier movement in columns R, S & T.

Way back when, Atomic confused cover with concealment. Cover values should be considered concealment values. In standard military terminology cover would be represented by the Elements file protection values.

ORIGINAL: mickxe5

Because low, medium and high also identify the 3 modes of soldier movement in columns R, S & T.

What makes you think these are related instead of the armor values ? - I think that terrain is also regarded by the engine when determining how "good" a hit is obtained on a vehicle target. This imo means the terrain therefore need to have values for different angles of incoming rounds.
Did you do any tests?

I agree with you on the cover/concealment part.

Maybe Steve at Matrix could comment on this thread?

These Elements file attributes (cover, protection, hindrance) were present in CC1 where the maps were flat and there was little to no variation in angles of fire. While CC1's Vehicles file nominally distinguished between low, medium and high angle of fire armor effects, in practice theoe values were identical in each case (eg. Frontal - low, medium, high values were all the same).

The Prone columns are another justification for low/med/high representing target stance rather than angle of fire. Otherwise each category (cover, protection, hindrance) would be a mix of stance (prone) and angles (low/med/high).

The 4 soldier stances also have differing vulnerabilities (cover and protection values) per the game manuals (eg. LSA 11.2):

"Teams sneaking are more vulnerable to enemy fire than stationary teams... Moving teams are much more vulnerable to enemy fire than stationary teams or teams moving covertly...Teams moving fast are more vulnerable to enemy fire than moving teams."

SchnelleMeyer,

Cover is checked against the accuracy of the shot to determine if the shot hits the terrain or not. The higher the cover value the more likely the terrain is to protect the soldier. There are a number of modifiers to this, most importantly the 'in elem protection flag,' but things close range, weapon type, movement, etc. are a factor as well. The best possible cover would be to set 'cover' to 512 in all planes and set 'in elem prot' to 1 (full cover, all directions.)

Note that 'Good' and 'Critical' accuracy shots bypass terrain protection completely. The chance of getting one of these types of hits is reduced by the cover value, but they can still happen even if you put cover to max. So soldiers may still take a lucky hit that bypasses terrain protection.

The 'planes' are how high something is for LOS interaction purposes. This is used to determine if the LOS line intersects with the terrain feature using a very simple model of 3D space and heights.

prone <= 0.5m
low <= 1m
Med <= 2m
High > 2m

The exact 'plane' which is used to see if terrain is in the way depends on both the relative elevations and stances of the firer and the target (prone, crouch, stand, vehicle.) Imagine a 3D line from the plane of the firer to the plane of the target, and the height of that line is checked in a very simple manner (via which 'plane' it is currently in) to see if it intersects any cover in between them.

Example: Two soldiers are lying prone and both are at the same elevation. The 'prone' plane values would apply when checking LOS or determining cover. Now say the firer is in a two story building and the target is prone at a relatively short range (close enough that the LOS calculation comes down at a relatively high angle instead of flat across the map) -- in this case a higher plane would be used, depending on how 'high' the LOS line is when it crosses any obstacle between the firer and target.

Keep in mind that CC's notion of 3D space is very simple and not very granular. Also the way the 'fire' order line is determined and displayed is not as detailed as the method for checking cover when one soldier fires at another, so you can see discrepancies.

Steve

Thank you very much for taking the time to&nbsp;answer so detailed about these functions. - This was exactly&nbsp;the information&nbsp;I was looking for.
I think modders can&nbsp;update their workbook header explanations for elements based on this answer.
&nbsp;
Now I can adjust values and actually&nbsp;have some clue to&nbsp;what I am doing:)
&nbsp;

You're welcome. Happy modding!

Steve