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Axis submarine deployments at the start of this scenario are as follows:

German:

Atlantic 3
Baltic 2
Mediterranean 3


Italian:

Atlantic 1
Mediterranean 0

I don't happen to know what submarine deployments actually looked like at this point in the war, but this looks odd.

I wouldn't expect the entire Italian submarine fleet to be in operating in the Atlantic, and I wouldn't expect the Germans to have as many submarines in the Mediterranean as in the Atlantic.

Are we quite sure that the submarine deployments are correct?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_s ... rld_War_II


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Atlantic


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterra ... ld_War_II)

Also this page, from which you can navigate to the 'U-Boat Regions' page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U-boat_flotillas

I've either forgotten a really basic rule or I'm encountering a bug.

Turns two and three of the Case Blue scenario in the central Mediterranean around Malta.

There's a British destroyer a couple hexes east of Malta. I moved each of three submarines next to it but couldn't attack it. I alsom moved a surface ship next to it and couldn't attack it.

There was also a British submarine off the North African coast near Benghazi that I couldn't attack with a German submarine.

The next turn I tried again. The submarine dissapeared but the destroyer was still there.

I still couldn't attack it, but I was able to move units through it without any ill effects.

I think that is an Italian DD, not a British one ?!?!

I think you're right. My bad.

ORIGINAL: Philippe at bay

Axis submarine deployments at the start of this scenario are as follows:

German:

Atlantic 3
Baltic 2
Mediterranean 3


Italian:

Atlantic 1
Mediterranean 0

I don't happen to know what submarine deployments actually looked like at this point in the war, but this looks odd.

I wouldn't expect the entire Italian submarine fleet to be in operating in the Atlantic, and I wouldn't expect the Germans to have as many submarines in the Mediterranean as in the Atlantic.

Are we quite sure that the submarine deployments are correct?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_s ... rld_War_II


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Atlantic

What I did was to place the named boats that were in the previous campaigns, into their rough historical locations as at the campaign's start date.

Suggestions for changing names and locations are welcome, because you are right that having the Italian sub start there is unusual so a different name and location might be more appropriate.

Moving the Italians may not be the way to go. Perhaps what you could do is represent the submarine fleet with two counters: leave one where the current one is, and put the second one near Italy or wherever the Italians based their Mediterranean submarines.

My gut tells me that there should be fewer German submarines in the Med and more in the Atlantic, but I can't be doctrinaire about this because I don't know how many real life VII C u-boats are equivalent to how many strength points and unit counters, and it's been a while since the Grey Wolves mod was installed on my computer so I can't read the notes (I'm pretty sure they had a chart about this). The Germans moved a lot of submarines into the Med during this period, but I'd be really surprised if the ratio of Atlantic to Mediterranean deployments was 1:1. But I'm sure there are a lot of people over at Subsim forum who know the answer to this question off the top of their heads.

Yes, some tweaks might be needed, though the ability to move subs from the Med to the Atlantic and vice versa does mean that the current set up provides the Axis with an opportunity for strong action in the Med that a player might not normally consider to make off their own back?

I think the start positions should try to reflect history as much as reasonably possible. If a player wants to experiment with doing or not doing something that was actually done, well, that's why we play simulations. But he should start each scenario with pretty much the same cards in his hand as the historical protagonists.

But I recognize that the game can't mimick historical reality exactly because the model isn't a perfect simulation.

The question remains, though, if something was relatively ineffective (like the Italian submarine war in the Med) do you reflect this in the game with weak units, or by leaving them out altogether? The latter is a bit heavy-handed, but one could conceivably make an argument for it (after doing a bunch of research that I haven't done).

In my current game the german AI did not secure Sevastopol once it captured it. It even ignored my russian CL which was still moored in Sevastopol harbor. For several rounds.

I've seen the AI do that in other places as well. Sometimes it's very aggressive about attacking ships in harbor, other times it's not.