Matrix Games Forums

I am nearing the first blizzard ever against a human player (me playing Axis). It has been years since I played the game against AI and it was with standard Blizzard. For standard Bliz there was tons of guides how to cope with it (send best units to germany, send LW to germany, send SU's to germany or keep in cities, retreat couple hexes in time).

With mild blizzard I am a bit lost. How do german units react to mild blizzard? Is it still needed to send units to winter holidays to Germany or are good forts+cities enough? Any other basic tips for mild blizzard?

In the game I am in fairly good position with Leningrad and Moscow captured, but just falling short of Rostov. So I am enticed to fight in winter, but I don't know if it is viable under mild blizzard -option.

Dig in early (to get at least level 2 forts) in good terrain (behind rivers too, until they freeze completely they will be an obstacle) and try to hold, counterattacking with mobile forces to keep the line static (and preserve forts on the flanks of the contested terrain, you would have to abandon without a fight otherwise). Try to rotate beaten units to forts, replacing them with "fresh" ones. Try to rest some panzer corps in a city behind a front if you can spare one or two. Refill fighting units from air (moving airbases near) with ammo and fuel, otherwise they will be weaker and easier to defeat, as your land resupply also suffers in first winter (especially in December and to a lesser degree in January).

Soviet attack bonus is also huge factor in mild blizzard. If you are playing without the bonus winter will be cakewalk for you.

Thank you for the tips.

Yes, we're playing without attack bonus as it seemed on quick glance to be a standard on the many AAR's here. Is there any consensus on the options (mild/normal, attack bonus/no bonus) at current balance of the game?

No there isn't consensus. But as you will see in your game, if your units will be at least in level 2 forts, Soviets won't be able to make any big push. Definitely you don't have to worry. You can check this AAR. German perspective, mild blizzard, no bonus.

And this one is from Soviet perspective.

ORIGINAL: Kantti

I am nearing the first blizzard ever against a human player (me playing Axis). It has been years since I played the game against AI and it was with standard Blizzard. For standard Bliz there was tons of guides how to cope with it (send best units to germany, send LW to germany, send SU's to germany or keep in cities, retreat couple hexes in time).

With mild blizzard I am a bit lost. How do german units react to mild blizzard?
Is it still needed to send units to winter holidays to Germany or are good forts+cities enough? Any other basic tips for mild blizzard?

In the game I am in fairly good position with Leningrad and Moscow captured, but just falling short of Rostov.
So I am enticed to fight in winter, but I don't know if it is viable under mild blizzard -option.

Oka north hole the lines and Oka south you can retreat if not dugin 1-2 hexes per turn during Dec.

It is critical now with the .01 patch that you still put panzers in citys near front or send to Germany, send all SU's to Germany and LW.

Also its critical you DO NOT attack during blizzard as lose ratio/counter attack ratio's have been changed.

Also all Divisions should be set to ready other then panzers in towns and ToE set to 71%,
all SU's in Germany set to 71% ToE other then pioneers set to 100%.

This will greatly lower your manpower/armament loses over the winter.

When March hits turn all Panzer units to ready, lower all SU ToE% to 55% and turn all infantry under 80% ToE to refit.

Once all units are over 80% then set all to refit 93% units, you can play with this, but by June all infantry will be at NM or higher lvls and all over 95% ToE

At some point in June put all Panzer Divisions on refit 93% - all SU's to 71% and all infantry on ready at 93% ToE.

You can at this time also disband a few HQs and AB's.

Your Army should be at max strength with a large pools of man.guns and AFV's for the summer dispite .01 new settings. LW will also be strong.

Why set infantry units at Exactly 71%? Is this another magic number like with the HQ TOEs?

Question: what is the relation of manpower saved in blizzard by following TheOne's scenario, to manpower lost having to regain the given up ground (assuming you still plan to get those 260/290VP in 1942, not turtle and await the Götterdämmerung). I ask out of curiosity, perhaps the ratio is favourable, I don't know.

No need to reduce to 71% - never seen this advice anywhere else. You have nothing to fear with your optional rules set-up. You need to minimise attrition where you can, but frankly that's not difficult as the R blizzard O will not be very effective so you don't need everyone shivering in the trenches.

In my game I went down to 85% except for mtn units and those refitting back in the warmth of a polish winter. All the average or below inf xx were on 90% TOE much earlier anyway.

Keep your units strong and be ready to start your full spring O in Feb.

I don't agree with the refit advice earlier. Depends on your m/power and arms position but all the pz, mot divs and 80+ morale inf xx should be put at 100%. I also keep SUs at 100% except for heavy arty because you don't ever want to build any 210mm howitzers, for example. I tend to keep these and higher calibre arty at 65% and to use judicious disbands.

ORIGINAL: TheOne
[...
Also its critical you DO NOT attack during blizzard as lose ratio/counter attack ratio's have been changed.
...

I respectfully don't agree.

With mild blizzard you will have opportunities to counterattack. Don't let your opponent feel free. See the battle of Stalino Bobo821 vs Stef78

And without soviet bonus, you shouldn't worry.

@sillyflower: Pelton is able to get excellent OOBs with his army. Just look at Steltecks AAR. Its June 1942 and his Germans have 4 million men. or the one against Pitaman with its 4,7 mio men OOB. If your army is 10% smaller, you also need 10% less truck capacity to supply it, probably saving some.

How are your pools at the end of blizzard TheOne?

The questions to consider are:

Less men=>less blizzard attrition=>less losses (+++)
Less men=>lessCV=>more lost battles=>more combat losses and more attrition losses due to destroyed forts (---)
Less men=>more territory lost in blizzard=>more to be taken back=>more combat losses (---)
Less men=>less CV=>more victories for the enemy=>better morale of the Soviets (---)
Less men=>more ground has to be given=>longer supply lines for the Soviets=>more Soviet truck losses (+++)

Are the positive or the negative effects greater?

TheOne comments are quite intriguing & informative & gives an intelligent slant on how to overcome shortages the German army has in 42 and its nice to read without the distracting cryptic comments.
Good one Pelton!

Yes I too prefer the posts which contain less allusions, as it was often very hard to follow the discussion if you do not know the entire story since 2010/11 and only joined the party late (like me).
The blizzard tips post was very good. In general TheOnes Style is good, because he says everything necessary in as few words as possible.

So... Erik seems to be getting his way... The new Pelton can come back with his real name maybe?? And really maybe.. the designers pay some attention... ps others have noticed and given up (with 2x3) trying to get the game fixed up that is.

The logistics needs work, lots know, few say so..

Yes, if, really IF, you don't use "all out" logistics it's a good game.

I have worked a little bit into the WITE 1 logistics and not at all in the WITE logistics, but my impression:
WITE 1 has binary supply mechanics and does not model everything in the same way. It is extremely complex in a few areas while on the other hand, it has mechanics at board game level. So it is no miracle that there are exploits.



But still an extraordinary game, thanks to everyone who contributed to make it great [&o]

What's interesting is that this mix of part classic paper wargame and part detailed accounting was actual vision of the designers. It's not a byproduct of compromises that had to be made.

Interesting, thanks for the clarification morvael.
There are many ways to analyze and model war. A non exhaustive list:
1)the narrative way: Stories of single soldiers expressed in novels: Wargame expression: Tactical wargames
2)the classis approach of historicians: analyzing politics, socio-cultural and economical aspects of war in a describing way: Wargame expression: Grand strategy games with diplomacy/roleplay elements (good example is DC: Barbarossa)
3)the military history/physicist approach: Try to analyze and quantify all aspects of the war with the aim on a good model: Wargame expressions: Well researched simulation games: Maybe WITE 2 and for sure Nigel Askeys Project

I prefer the approach number 3). If I deal with and read about WW2, I like to think in number ratios, equilibriums, probability, technical specifications and organisational/army management aspects. Thats why I value Nigel Askeys Books very high. For example, he uses a model of conservation of ressources resembling to the energy conservation in physics.
I would love a game with a logistics model working like a complex system in physics.

I don't have a boardgame or army background, so I don't share some experiences you have.

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

The questions to consider are:

Less men=>less blizzard attrition=>less losses (+++)

Allot less, if you are putting all planes in Reserve, all SU's in OKH in Germany, putting as many Panzer units in cities or Germany.


Less men=>lessCV=>more lost battles=>more combat losses and more attrition losses due to destroyed forts (---)

Remember how blizzard works, Dec is bad, Jan ok and Feb easy. So your CV is same as it would be with or without refit on for Dec, a little lower for Jan and Feb is same as Russians cant do much.

Less men=>more territory lost in blizzard=>more to be taken back=>more combat losses (---)

No, Oka north your not losing any ground as your MT troops are up here with good terrain. In the south your giving ground
(+ no attrition losses for 1 logistics phase as your not in contact), you give ground no matter what tactic you use anyways. Plus the ground you lost in south you get to roll over manpower center AGAIN.

Less men=>less CV=>more victories for the enemy=>better morale of the Soviets (---)

No difference really, morale is done different no so it comes back to NM levels faster going up or down. The victories won are slightly higher on for Jan.

Less men=>more ground has to be given=>longer supply lines for the Soviets=>more Soviet truck losses (+++)

Allot less loses for Germany and slightly more Russian

Are the positive or the negative effects greater?

As Germany by the end of Feb you should have 200,000 to 250,000 men in the manpower pool, 1500-2000 AFVs and you saved 10,000 of armament pts-1000's of guns and trucks

You turn refit on in March and your army is at full strength by April.

So by June 15ish you have close to 100% ToE of everything + all the production from April-Mid June in pools.

Huge difference.

Guys simply read all of Pelton's posts + AAR's which is all I have done - then you can help the newbies get up to speed allot faster.

The game is basicly like a living cell as one area effects another for +/- effects.

ORIGINAL: TheOne
Guys simply read all of Pelton's posts + AAR's which is all I have done - then you can help the newbies get up to speed allot faster.

Since you wrote it all too, must make for easy reading. [:'(]