Matrix Games Forums

Can it be done by a unit?

How?


"unit with X Forts": is this? Why some unit have it, and why others do not?

In general, can a "entranchement" or "fortification", of any kind even at base, be reduced by bombardment?

TIA,

Adar

Look up my answer on the subject.  It was recently provided again in another thread.  But of course then you would have to make an effort to understand what someone else, that is someone other than you, has written.  Far easier for you to find fault with the game when your nonsense ideas are not supported.
 
Alfred

Alfred is the nearest thing to an AE guru we have, but he get understandably tired of having to repeat things and also the fact that new people simply fire off lots of questions rather than do some digging themselves....

Speaking of digging, units will over time dig in where they sit when not in a base hex, you have no control over this, it just happens. Some of my Chinese have reached level 3 fortifications in this way and I have done nothing other than leave them alone.

Some dig in faster than others, this may be a result of commander, engineers, fatigue level, the state of the weather, what they had for breakfast, whether the local wildlife need protection....

Some of the above are not true, some are, we have no real idea which.....

Roger

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Look up my answer on the subject.  It was recently provided again in another thread.  But of course then you would have to make an effort to understand what someone else, that is someone other than you, has written.  Far easier for you to find fault with the game when your nonsense ideas are not supported.

Alfred

The gratest effort here is to find the threads actually....

Thank you for the frank answer [:)][:)]

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson III

and also the fact that new people simply fire off lots of questions rather than do some digging themselves....

As said above..
For example where is to be found the thread he was referring to?

And what about fortificaton level to be reduced by bomardment?

Thank you!

From another thread:

ORIGINAL: glyphoglossus

The plus ("+") sign tells Google that the search term has to be present in the results (as opposed to just increasing its score/ranking if it happens to be present), while words in quotes, of course, searches for the entire phrase as opposed to each word individually.

I have had quite a bit of success with this formula to search for, e.g. posts with "training" and/or "mission":

Code: Select all

site:matrixgames.com +"War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition" training mission

Or, more strictly (each result must have BOTH "training" AND "mission"):

Code: Select all

site:matrixgames.com +"War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition" +training +mission

Or, even more strictly (each result must have the exact phrase "training mission"):

Code: Select all

site:matrixgames.com +"War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition" +"training mission"

What is challenging is telling Google to find posts by author, e.g. Depending on things, you can just do:

Code: Select all

site:matrixgames.com +"War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition" +Alfred training mission

but, of course, this returns any page with "Alfred" on it anywhere, rather than post specifically by "Alfred" mentioning "training" .

Fortifications are only ever degraded by assault, combat engineers are the best fro this though by themselves they get killed. Generally the larger the adjusted AV the better to take down forts. Bombardment does nothing to them at all. Bombardment disables and kills defenders, disables and destroys enemy guns and generally disrupts and fatigues the enemy - however it can also do the same to your own troops by inviting counterbattery fire.

Roger

To be fair, Alfred, adarbrauner started this thread with nothing but respectful questions. This is the sort of post we should be encouraging.

I am not aware of "field" fortifications ever really being degraded by assaults. I think they remain until the unit moves or is evicted.

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

Fortifications are only ever degraded by assault...

Roger

This applies only to base forts if my understanding is correct. Field fortifications can never be reduced unless the creating unit moves out of them. Unless something has changed or my understanding is faulty, field fortifications are never reduced during combat in non-base hexes.

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I am not aware of "field" fortifications ever really being degraded by assaults. I think they remain until the unit moves or is evicted.

Yup, and I dare say this is (or should be) the first thing affecting the long-term planning of the land war. Damn hard to dislodge dug in LCUs in x3 terrain - Chinese with 4 forts can kick some serious butt, if they are given time to dig

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I am not aware of "field" fortifications ever really being degraded by assaults. I think they remain until the unit moves or is evicted.

Indeed sorry I was using fortifications there to just talk about bases, didn't make that clear. I would concur with you on the field forts entirely.

Roger

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

To be fair, Alfred, adarbrauner started this thread with nothing but respectful questions. This is the sort of post we should be encouraging.

I can see your point, but adarbruner has appeared recently as an apparent newbie to the game and has posted on many threads now, sometimes unfortunately with a tone which has not helped him in his quest for knowledge. I guess he is becoming a little irritating to some people on here.

I suspect a lot is down to cultural/language issues, but he does come across at times as someone who gets close to being green lighted by me and I have only twice I think used the green light so far on here.

He would seem genuinely to want to learn the game but at times he has difficulty understanding the helpful response he gets - over on this side of the pond we use the helpful advice' when digging yourself into a hole, stop digging'

Roger

One thing I'm sure many have learned, but might be useful for some, is that not all units can dig to above forts level 2. An IJA division sitting in a hex will dig to level 2 and never get past that even if it sits for months ( I haven't tried this with Allied units).

A brigade or another smaller unit with engineers will dig to at least forts 6, maybe higher, although I've not seen this. I've had Thai divisions at level 6.

An IJA division will dig to level 3 and beyond, up to level 6, if you split it into it's three regiments. This seems counterintuitive, but it works. Then if all units are the same fort level at some time later you can recombine them and keep the higher forts level.

ORIGINAL: obvert

One thing I'm sure many have learned, but might be useful for some, is that not all units can dig to above forts level 2. An IJA division sitting in a hex will dig to level 2 and never get past that even if it sits for months ( I haven't tried this with Allied units).

A brigade or another smaller unit with engineers will dig to at least forts 6, maybe higher, although I've not seen this. I've had Thai divisions at level 6.

An IJA division will dig to level 3 and beyond, up to level 6, if you split it into it's three regiments. This seems counterintuitive, but it works. Then if all units are the same fort level at some time later you can recombine them and keep the higher forts level.

I would need to revisit an old turn, but I am fairly certain that I recently had IJA units in the jungle with forts 4. Without dividing.

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: obvert

One thing I'm sure many have learned, but might be useful for some, is that not all units can dig to above forts level 2. An IJA division sitting in a hex will dig to level 2 and never get past that even if it sits for months ( I haven't tried this with Allied units).

A brigade or another smaller unit with engineers will dig to at least forts 6, maybe higher, although I've not seen this. I've had Thai divisions at level 6.

An IJA division will dig to level 3 and beyond, up to level 6, if you split it into it's three regiments. This seems counterintuitive, but it works. Then if all units are the same fort level at some time later you can recombine them and keep the higher forts level.

I would need to revisit an old turn, but I am fairly certain that I recently had IJA units in the jungle with forts 4. Without dividing.

I've sat units for a good six months never getting above a level 2, and they had supply, so if yours did go above, that would be interesting for me.

Maybe mine are short on shovels? [:D]

As far as I can tell:
1. I was wrong, you do not need engineers
2. the unit has to be in combat mode.

I have some Chinese units with forts of 5 in non-base hexes.

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

As far as I can tell:
1. the unit has to have engineers active.
2. the unit has to be in combat mode.

I have some Chinese units with forts of 5 in non-base hexes.

I forgot to say that I have achieved higher levels with Chinese units. This is in fact what made me think about it originally, because when I played the Allies I noticed Chinese Corps going to level 3 and upward, and I hadn't seen my IJA divisions doing this.

I have only played Allied so I have no idea about the IJA.

Going back to the original question. If a non-base hex has multiple units (say three Chinese Corps, a few artillery, and a BF), they each will have different levels of forts. The three different Corps may have forts of 2, 3, and 4 and the support units have 1 or 2 forts. If you just do ground bombardment, they will never lose a fort level. Like attacking a base, you need to actually assault the hex. However, what happens in a non-base hex is that each unit will retreat based on its fort level. If I remember right, they retreat only if the odds are the fort level plus 1. So, the units with forts of 2 will retreat from hex if the overall odds are 3:1 and the two Corps with forts of 3 and 4 will remain (their fort levels don't change). So, its more of a process to get the units with lower forts to retreat first. Many times the attacker will need to move fresh troops in and out before they can take control of a hex with x3 terrain modifiers in it with troops dug in to level 3 forts.

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

To be fair, Alfred, adarbrauner started this thread with nothing but respectful questions. This is the sort of post we should be encouraging.

I can see your point, but adarbruner has appeared recently as an apparent newbie to the game and has posted on many threads now, sometimes unfortunately with a tone which has not helped him in his quest for knowledge. I guess he is becoming a little irritating to some people on here.

I suspect a lot is down to cultural/language issues, but he does come across at times as someone who gets close to being green lighted by me and I have only twice I think used the green light so far on here.

He would seem genuinely to want to learn the game but at times he has difficulty understanding the helpful response he gets - over on this side of the pond we use the helpful advice' when digging yourself into a hole, stop digging'

Roger

Roger, I had become just as tired of the "it doesn't work how I think it should, the game is therefore bugged" aspect of many of his threads and posts. I was merely pointing out that this thread was started with the type of post we should be encouraging him to make rather than using this thread to attack him for what he has said in his other threads.

We don't disagree....

Roger