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I almost hate to do this, but what the heck, I have to keep my membership in the SFC. [;)]

In my most recent game as Soviets, I didn't survive 10 turns as one very clever player came across the idea of using an effective Lvov Pocket in combination with throwing away the operational plan for Barbarossa.

Panzer Group 4 and 18th Army are stripped from the AGN OOB and follow the pile of AGC units on their way to Moscow.

Below is turn 6. My first major line of defense after the Smolensk land bridge was planned to last for 4 turns. It didn't last 1 as Manstein, Model and the gang blow my lines away. Very important to note the fuel situation of some of the lead units, at or near full.



I pulled back the southern portion of that line to help defend Moscow. By the next turn, the Germans were within 7 hexes of Moscow.



Moscow was surrounded within 3 turns. Game over. Given the amount of industry that needed to be evacuated, there wasn't a chance to reinforce the area with a lot of units.

Any ideas on what I might have done different?

Interesting as in my current game the German player tried the same thing, but so far I easly stopped it.

He started out normal then moved everything to the center the 2nd turn. I started out with the standard save Moscow at all costs strategy, but saw him going all in for Moscow and shifted good units from Leningrad to center.

I pulled back from the land bridge turn 4 and kept with drawing until Rzkev.

By the time he got there I had 100 miles of lvl 2 forts and best units.

In your game player looks to know logistics system better then mine.

It is possible to do a bunch of HQBU's turn 3 in the center, then another turn 4 ect ect normal chaining method used in south.
I believe you could stop it, but you have to have everything good in the center and be digging turn 1-7 from Moscow west,
checker board the south and only rail out stuff east of rivers giving up everything west side so you could easly stay ahead of
curve on rest of map.

probably the newest flavor of the month German Strategy, just be flexible defending.


What is players name?

ORIGINAL: TheOne


probably the newest flavor of the month German Strategy, just be flexible defending.


What is players name?

Nope, but a good guess. It is my strat and been using it for a long time. But there are intricate details I rather not discuss right now. Maybe after I get to a comfortable turn with others I am playing I will do a write up AAR but leave out peoples names. When I do the write up you will see opponents doing the same thing over and over again. Suffice to say that a defense in depth was needed in some areas by M60.

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: TheOne


probably the newest flavor of the month German Strategy, just be flexible defending.


What is players name?

Nope, but a good guess. It is my strat and been using it for a long time. But there are intricate details I rather not discuss right now. Maybe after I get to a comfortable turn with others I am playing I will do a write up AAR but leave out peoples names. When I do the write up you will see opponents doing the same thing over and over again. Suffice to say that a defense in depth was needed in some areas by M60.

Also, Just as I posted in Michael T's post "Hell bent on Lebensraum IV" you can punish large defense stacks. There were numerous occasions of this at the land bridge.

ORIGINAL: GeneralfeldmarschallWalterModel

Interesting as in my current game the German player tried the same thing, but so far I easly stopped it.

He started out normal then moved everything to the center the 2nd turn. I started out with the standard save Moscow at all costs strategy, but saw him going all in for Moscow and shifted good units from Leningrad to center.

I pulled back from the land bridge turn 4 and kept with drawing until Rzkev.

By the time he got there I had 100 miles of lvl 2 forts and best units.

In your game player looks to know logistics system better then mine.

We aren't comparing apples to apples here ;} Skill level in these two games are WAY different.

Any ideas on what I might have done different?

It would be useful if you could post ealier screenshots.

In general I would say that the 'PG 4 through the center' strategy is a viable one and something the Soviet player needs to guard against from turn 1. Always have something in VL on turn 1. Also be prepared for PG 4 to feign towards Leningrad before switching back on turn 3 or 4.
If PG 4 does head for the center then think about backing off one turn sooner than you normally would. The terrain East and North of Smolensk can be turned into a powerful defense line. Make sure he doesn't blow through this area before you have a chance to defend it. Normally I would want to have a strong defense in that area by turn 6, with an Axis all-in Moscow strategy I'd bring that forward to turn 5.

Sorry Timmy, I had not intended to do an AAR so I only did a few screenshots on Turns 6 & 7. As far as the powerful defensive line east and north of Smolensk goes, I thought that's what I was doing. Obviously I wasn't. VL was defended early on too.

As far as HardLuck's comment about more defense in depth, I was stacked along much of that line and could have gone single unit carpet I suppose. But railing in more units from the south would lower my railcap and hinder industrial evacuation. It's always a fine balancing act in the first ten turns.

Anyways, given the rate he appears to be burning through opponents in the Opponents Wanted section, I'm not sure if anyone's found an answer- yet.

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Sorry Timmy, I had not intended to do an AAR so I only did a few screenshots on Turns 6 & 7. As far as the powerful defensive line east and north of Smolensk goes, I thought that's what I was doing. Obviously I wasn't. VL was defended early on too.

As far as HardLuck's comment about more defense in depth, I was stacked along much of that line and could have gone single unit carpet I suppose. But railing in more units from the south would lower my railcap and hinder industrial evacuation. It's always a fine balancing act in the first ten turns.

Anyways, given the rate he appears to be burning through opponents in the Opponents Wanted section, I'm not sure if anyone's found an answer- yet.

Sent you a PM M60A3TTS on where I thought more units could be placed to have stopped me. Check your screen shots and let me know. As you know I recon like crazy and it tells me a lot.

There is nothing new about such a strategy in either WITE or any East Front game. Against sound defensive play it is a strategy destined for failure. And even if it succeeded I certainly would not be resigning just because Moscow fell. With so many resources thrown at Moscow the rest of the front must surely be doing well.

Too bad you're retired Michael. I'd genuinely like to see how you would fare. HardLuck seems to be able to make as much progress in the early turns as Pelton ever did.

ORIGINAL: Michael T

There is nothing new about such a strategy in either WITE or any East Front game. Against sound defensive play it is a strategy destined for failure. And even if it succeeded I certainly would not be resigning just because Moscow fell. With so many resources thrown at Moscow the rest of the front must surely be doing well.

Nope, nothing new but I have my twist on it which makes it mine. Who ever said all resources were thrown at Moscow? All my resources aren't thrown at Moscow. I have a balanced approach but Moscow was my Number 1 priority on the list. I believe even yourself said so in your AAR's that Moscow is number UNO when playing the Germans, am I mistaken?

As for M60's game resigning was the correct thing to do. Moscow was surrounded and Leningrad was cut off with Industry in both cities). M60 did great on evacuating the south Plus he had less than 20 divisions at most Oka North that were not surrounded (could be more but that is my screenshots from Recon) South I was pushing Kharkov (2 hexes) and Stalino (4 hexes). You just don't know all the details Michael

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Too bad you're retired Michael. I'd genuinely like to see how you would fare. HardLuck seems to be able to make as much progress in the early turns as Pelton ever did.

I offered to play him but Mainsten63 got the bill

You will know when you have done or are doing something unique when they nerf it. That happened twice too me. Otherwise it’s just uneven player skill, or perhaps an overall imbalance in the game. Which at the moment is fairly pro German.

ORIGINAL: Michael T

You will know when you have done or are doing something unique when they nerf it. That happened twice too me. Otherwise it’s just uneven player skill, or perhaps an overall imbalance in the game. Which at the moment is fairly pro German.

That must be it, the game is pro German, because I sux at this game (I like the low profile keeps people guessing on skill) I will now crawl back in my shell and dust off my copy of Fire in the East and Scorched earth.

As far as the powerful defensive line east and north of Smolensk goes, I thought that's what I was doing

The line I'm thinking of is built around the upper Dnyper. It can be made extremely tough in the middle and even an ace Axis player will probably choose to go around it.
After this line takes some of the steam off, retreat to the next good defensive line, lake Seliger/Rshev/Vyasma/Bryansk. Probably about turn 7 verses an expert. This line is difficult to defend and needs a very strong plug between Vyasma and Rshev.
At this rate you might well lose Moscow by late Summer, but with skill and luck you'll have your army intact and Leningrad too.

I'm not sure if anyone's found an answer- yet

An expert Axis player is incredibly difficult to handle now and maybe that's as it should be. And there's no shame in losing to a good player.
As Mike said, losing Moscow isn't the end of the world. Although it is a major blow for sure.

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Michael T

You will know when you have done or are doing something unique when they nerf it. That happened twice too me. Otherwise it’s just uneven player skill, or perhaps an overall imbalance in the game. Which at the moment is fairly pro German.

That must be it, the game is pro German, because I sux at this game (I like the low profile keeps people guessing on skill) I will now crawl back in my shell and dust off my copy of Fire in the East and Scorched earth.

You are simply all talk, no AAR's

The only time I see your name in an AAR is vs a good player is vs Pelton and your cried family issues and quit the game.

Like Michael said " until you cause nerfs to the game" your a newbie.

Your 0 and 1.

Michael has never even lost Leningrad and that was back in the day when the game was 100% pro German.

Player skills being = the Russians should win 100% of the time.

Problem is most players simply only understand 20% of the game so its easy to find a new player and easly beat them.


(I like the low profile keeps people guessing on skill)

No it simply means you have none and quit when you play vs a good player.

Yes bro crawl back in your hole and best wishes to your family

ORIGINAL: TheOne

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Michael T

You will know when you have done or are doing something unique when they nerf it. That happened twice too me. Otherwise it’s just uneven player skill, or perhaps an overall imbalance in the game. Which at the moment is fairly pro German.

That must be it, the game is pro German, because I sux at this game (I like the low profile keeps people guessing on skill) I will now crawl back in my shell and dust off my copy of Fire in the East and Scorched earth.

You are simply all talk, no AAR's

The only time I see your name in an AAR is vs a good player is vs Pelton and your cried family issues and quit the game.

Like Michael said " until you cause nerfs to the game" your a newbie.

Your 0 and 1.

Michael has never even lost Leningrad and that was back in the day when the game was 100% pro German.

Player skills being = the Russians should win 100% of the time.

Problem is most players simply only understand 20% of the game so its easy to find a new player and easly beat them.


(I like the low profile keeps people guessing on skill)

No it simply means you have none and quit when you play vs a good player.

Yes bro crawl back in your hole and best wishes to your family

Yup, this is definitely Pelton. His typical reply. Can't believe the Moderators let him stay in all the different proxies.

ORIGINAL: TheOne

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Michael T

You will know when you have done or are doing something unique when they nerf it. That happened twice too me. Otherwise it’s just uneven player skill, or perhaps an overall imbalance in the game. Which at the moment is fairly pro German.

That must be it, the game is pro German, because I sux at this game (I like the low profile keeps people guessing on skill) I will now crawl back in my shell and dust off my copy of Fire in the East and Scorched earth.

No it simply means you have none and quit when you play vs a good player.

I never quit that game Pelton. I said the turns were going to be slow because of my Moms cancer & me going to Japan for over a Month. Read the post in your AAR. You (Pelton) then asked to withdraw from the game yourself. Boy how you distort the facts.

Maybe the balance of the game is quite good, but everyone play with too many pro-german option such as mild winter and no soviet attack bonus the first year.

It is very difficult to balance the game with so many critical options. Too much options is a nightmare for a game designer.

I hope there will be only one blizzard and one rule for WITE2.