Matrix Games Forums

Ok, so blowing up Knavey's ships in our PBEM game, makes we want to actually command the North Carolina until he sends me his next PBEM turn. It have fond memories of "Naval Battles of Guadalcanal". Unfortunatly, I can't get it to work on Win2k. Are there any good naval sims out there at the moment? Are there any Matrix games out there (or in developement) that would fit the bill?

-F-

There is only 1.

Harpoon 3. Pretty much everything else will require that you downgrade your system to Windows 98 (Boy was I ticked when I stuck in Jane's F-18 and found it had been Win'dozed into the useless heap!)

It's sad, but we are killing off a few great games everytime we upgrade our OS as the installers die on version checks

(* sigh *)

You have any links to info on Harpoon 3?

I was really kinda looking for WW2 genre tho.

I should also check to see if there's anything in development from Matrix, I hear they make pretty good games... :^)

-F-

I know just how you feel, I probably spent more time playing Great Naval Battles in all it's versions then I have UV

www.harpoon3.com

We need to convince Gary to do Jutland and more naval stuff!

BoB was pretty good, but there really was no quick and dirty game options for when you had a half-hour or so to kill.

Harpoon rules when it comes to that, as you can pick as large or as small a scenario to play depending on your time commitment.

Some other folks might be able to comment on successes they have had getting the older stuff to run on the newer versions of Windows...At least grab the H3 demo.

The much worked on and improved Fighting Steel should allow you to run some WWII naval battles.

"Fighting Steel"...

Tell me more. I did a search and am poking on these sights. Looks like they've updated the original game? Is it finished? Does it run on Win2k? I can't seem to view the screenies because the zip file that contains them is broken...

More infor please!
-F-

Originally posted by Feinder
"Fighting Steel"...

Tell me more. I did a search and am poking on these sights. Looks like they've updated the original game? Is it finished? Does it run on Win2k? I can't seem to view the screenies because the zip file that contains them is broken...

More infor please!
-F-

Really don't know how good it is now. I can't recall if ti is on the SSI site (if that even exists) but the Naval Wargamers site is the ones who worked on it along with Silent Hunter 2 and Destroyer Command.

Oh boy... my favorite topic... let's see:

- Destroyer Command by Ubi/Ultimation. This game got slashed by critics when it was released, but I enjoy it immensely, and I consider myself to be very critical person, not easily pleased. It's WW2 destroyer sim (strictly US DDs). This game made me feel what it was like to be in Burke's or Moosebrugger shoes, or, with a bit of imagination, Tanaka's (although Jap DDs are not "drivable" in the game). I recommend this game wholeheartedly, even more so, if we consider this is basically *The Only* game that fits your (Feinders) initial request (WW2 naval sim) Oleg mark: 8,5 out of 10

- Silent Hunter 2 by Ubi/Ultimation. Again - this game was received badly by some critics, while I really can't see why? (And I review games in my spare time, and am very critical person, mind you). Fine U-boat sim (U-boats only), with depth many players don't even perceive (pun intended). Lotsa good player made mods for this one, and some of them are a must. Oleg mark: 9/10 (with all the available mods, especially Project Schwertfisch - one of the most immersive sound mods for any game, ever).

- Fighting Steel by SSI - worth looking at, if you can find it real cheap somewhere, but I was very VERY disappointed with this game. Lemme just say this: WW2 surface naval sim with NO subs, NO CVs, NO aircraft, NO land (NO LAND!!! - that translates into no Ironbotom sound scenarios), no Italians, no French, no Dutch navies... So, what's simulated then, you may ask? La Plata, Danish Strait... umm, several more scenarios and that's it! Disappointing. Oleg mark: 5/10, on a good day. (Note - this is not strictly a "sim" - as developery say in their own words: FS is "naval wargame in 3D", you don't manage the gun elevation yourself, as you may do in other games I mention here, you just give the appropriate orders to little people in your PC

- Sub Command - oh, boy, I could tell a REALLY long story re this one. I have had mixed feeling about this game. Lotsa quirky bugs, some patched, some (still) not, but at the end this IS very good nuke sub sim (three subs are simulated: 688i, Rus Akula, and Seawolf). This is perhaps the most complex game on this list, and takes a LOT of patience and will to master, but can be extremely rewarding. Akula is the hardest sub to master - but once I got a grip on this baby - it became my favorite sub in the game. Oleg mark: 8,5 out of 10. (Note: this is nuke sub sim, not anything to do with WW2)

- Fleet Command - aka "Harpoon lite" (see Harpoon below). This game is a predecessor of Sub Command, based on a same engine, but in a less developed state. I haven't played this one so I can't comment. Modern naval fleet ops.

- Jutland and Tsushima by HPS - I have a REALLY low opinion re these two. Tiller is repetitive and boring designer, and his games look like they were designed to run on a 386 computer with DOS cca 1989. Oleg's mark: 2 out of 10. (Note: these are wargames, not sims, and I actually tried only Jutland, but Tsushima is Jutland's carbon copy, so...)

In development:

- Harpoon 4. Comprehensive "command sim" of modern naval warfare. Since it's developed by Ubi/Ultimation, regular "haters" of their games already "buried" this game, but I have great expectations of this title. It's the continuation of the respectable series - H3 and H2002 are available today. ETA: June

- Norm Koger's Tsushima, ie. Russo-Jap war naval game. Knowing Koger, if this is anything short of mind-numbingly excellent, I'd be eating urinal pucks for dessert (to quote a man funnier than myself). ETA: this spring.

That's about it AFAIK.

Short version: get Destroyer Command and Silent Hunter 2 (if youre into subs), Sub Command (if you're into nuke subs and have LOTS of time and nerves). Avoid anything by Tiller/HPS. Wait, like the rest of us, for Koger RJW game and H4

And play UV of course

Oleg

Have a look at the Matrix game "Europa fleet actions". It is still in development, but I am keeping an eye on the forum.

Maybe you should take a look at the Naval Warfare simulations website : http://www.navalwarfare.org/

They managed to improve "old" games such as Fleet command, Fighting steel, ... and they just released their own games : NWS: Warship Combat-WW2

Originally posted by Oleg Mastruko

- Silent Hunter 2 by Ubi/Ultimation. Again - this game was received badly by some critics, while I really can't see why? (And I review games in my spare time, and am very critical person, mind you). Fine U-boat sim (U-boats only), with depth many players don't even perceive (pun intended). Lotsa good player made mods for this one, and some of them are a must. Oleg mark: 9/10 (with all the available mods, especially Project Schwertfisch - one of the most immersive sound mods for any game, ever).


Oleg

And ther's the problem - you gotta have this player mod or that one to make it even close to playable. By the time I gave up on it they had 3 mods by the Nval Wargamer guys and it still sucked.

Unless they have really made a lot of changes the campaign is still the C&C one path to victory or start over type. Ever get to the mission where you have to sink 10k tons of merchant shipping? Fine, but on that mission I ran into the inert CV and his DDs which run aground chasing you. Sunk the CV. Went back to port expecting a parade and a medal. Nope - didn't sink 10k tons of merchant shipping - gotta start the same mission over.

Random scenarios are fine but without a campaign game it sucks.

The problem I have with most of the first person type sims is that although they have become almost too realistic over the years, they are not really strategy games anymore. Harpoon retains the strategy portion of the game while upgrading to real time command and control. It really is a one of a kind similar to what Close Combat did for land battles.

We just need to convince GG that a game like Harpoon & CC merged together is the next engine for him to write

While his computerized boardgames are excellent, they all miss the stress of real time reactions, which is as much a part of war as any other factor out there. The problem is quite obvious though, PBEM and Real Time are rather incompatible in requirements

After going to 4 stores, I actually found a copy of "Destroyer Command" in a jewel case (but none of the other titles). Unfortunatley, it doesn't say that it runs on Win2k (my OS), so I didn't pick it up. While it did look interesting, I was looking for something a bit more varied, instead of just destroyers (as important as they may be).

Hello! Calling Matrix! New naval sim please!

:^)
-F-

Hello! Calling Matrix! New naval sim please!

NO KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want Jutland personally! It's EPIC scale

After playing the AH version taking up the entire basement decades ago, I am shocked that this market still has not been filled.

Originally posted by Feinder
After going to 4 stores, I actually found a copy of "Destroyer Command" in a jewel case (but none of the other titles). Unfortunatley, it doesn't say that it runs on Win2k (my OS), so I didn't pick it up. While it did look interesting, I was looking for something a bit more varied, instead of just destroyers (as important as they may be).

Hello! Calling Matrix! New naval sim please!

:^)
-F-

I played DC under W2k if it means anything to you and I play it with no problems under Win XP which is basically W2k on steroids. But to tell the truth, there were players who reported problems running it under XP...

If you can't find naval sims in stores try www.subsim.com.

O.

Originally posted by Feinder
Ok, so blowing up Knavey's ships in our PBEM game, makes we want to actually command the North Carolina until he sends me his next PBEM turn. -F-

If you want to command the North Carolina just come out to Wilmington where it is currently on display. There's nothing like manning an AA gun or barking out orders while standing on the bridge. Oh sure the other people give you strange looks and if you get too caught up in the moment they kick you off the ship but thats part of the fun.

I've had no problems running SH2 and DC on WinXP. Honestly, if it wasn't for the mods, it wouldn't get much play time with me. The mods are what make them good. I still play Sub Command more than both of them put together, though. Once again, the SCX mod for SC is what makes it the game it should be.

Originally posted by Oleg Mastruko
Oh boy... my favorite topic... let's see:
...
That's about it AFAIK.
...

What about that old classic from way back, Action Stations!

Review from UnderDogs site
Arguably the best RAW Entertainment game and one of the most comprehensive naval simulations ever designed, Action Stations! is a very comprehensive simulation of surface warfare before and during World War II (between 1922-45). In the words of M. Evan Brooks: "Excellent research and complexities were marred by poor graphics and an awkward user interface. Still, it is the most detailed simulation ever attempted for this historical period, and can still serve as an effective research tool." Overall, a must have for every armchair fleet commander that remains today one of the most accurate and complex naval wargame ever made. It was also deservedly a candidate for Computer Gaming World's "Wargame of the Year" award in 1990. Thumbs up!

Avg. Rating: ( 8.94/10) [130 votes]

I must totally agree with the review above. As far as I know, it is based on a tabletop set of rules of the same name (which I have played) which required a slide rule to do the gunnery and other calculations. The rules modelled ships with detailed diagrams and list/flotation damage was calculated from flooded watertight compartment size and position if the relevant armour was penetrated (lots of variables taken into account here which is why you needed the slide rule).

As far as the computer version goes, the user interface must be the absolutely worst I have ever seen!!!! I had the version ported to the Amiga computer and they had taken every single limitation of the original MSDOS version (lo res vga graphics, etc) and not taken advantage of one feature of the target machine (mouse, full colour, multiple windows, multimedia capabilities, etc) which really could have made this game.

However if you are willing to persist, the game play is very strong and it certainly gives you an understanding of the problems facing the naval tactical commander of the time. There is nothing more satisfying than watching your destroyer succeed in putting a spread of fish into the side of a light cruiser (with unguided torps you are lucky to hit anything) and watching it capsize before they can counterflood to correct the sudden massive list.

Available for download from
http://www.the-underdogs.org
or a fiver on ebay (worth that much for the printed manual).

Cheers,
Reg.

(P.S. Lots of Pacific scenarios. The 2nd Guadacanal one is good).

Both SH2 and DC run fine on my XP system.

There are a lot of mods available for DC. They make the game quite rich and playable. Paying DC made me realize one thing. Airplanes are your fatal enemy.