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ORIGINAL: Alfred

This article goes into factual detail on the issue. The article has many hyper links back to official sites which provide additional factual information.

ORIGINAL: Hotei

The war time ABDA nations should have considerable weight in jointly demanding to stop this activity, it is obvious the Indonesian government is allowing this.

Politicians that lack the will to make this in to an international dispute if need be should be exposed to the electorates.

Netherlands is limited in its foreign policy by EU but USA, UK and Australia are free to act.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Hotei

The war time ABDA nations should have considerable weight in jointly demanding to stop this activity, it is obvious the Indonesian government is allowing this.

Politicians that lack the will to make this in to an international dispute if need be should be exposed to the electorates.

Netherlands is limited in its foreign policy by EU but USA, UK and Australia are free to act.

warspite1

Why is the UK different to the Netherlands please?

ORIGINAL: crsutton

You have to put it in perspective. Although these warship are venerated by us. It is pretty hard to imagine that the average Indonesian would look at it the same way. The Dutch as colonizers were about as brutal as could be and they were just as hated in the DEI as their Japanese liberators. The victorious Allies instead of bending to Indonesian desires for self rule stood by while the Dutch attempted to re-assume control after the war. Why would anyone there care much about monuments to their colonial masters? This is a poor country and the ships are there to be scrapped in the eyes of most of the people. Sometimes when you are poor it is easy to put sentiment aside. I don't know if there is any international law protecting these ships as monuments though. If not, then they are open to salvage just like any sunken ship.


I am not arguing that what the Indonesians are doing is right or wrong. However, I think it is wise to put yourself in their shoes before you start calling them out.

ORIGINAL: crsutton

You have to put it in perspective. Although these warship are venerated by us. It is pretty hard to imagine that the average Indonesian would look at it the same way. The Dutch as colonizers were about as brutal as could be and they were just as hated in the DEI as their Japanese liberators. The victorious Allies instead of bending to Indonesian desires for self rule stood by while the Dutch attempted to re-assume control after the war. Why would anyone there care much about monuments to their colonial masters? This is a poor country and the ships are there to be scrapped in the eyes of most of the people. Sometimes when you are poor it is easy to put sentiment aside. I don't know if there is any international law protecting these ships as monuments though. If not, then they are open to salvage just like any sunken ship.


I am not arguing that what the Indonesians are doing is right or wrong. However, I think it is wise to put yourself in their shoes before you start calling them out.

ORIGINAL: Hotei

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Hotei

The war time ABDA nations should have considerable weight in jointly demanding to stop this activity, it is obvious the Indonesian government is allowing this.

Politicians that lack the will to make this in to an international dispute if need be should be exposed to the electorates.

Netherlands is limited in its foreign policy by EU but USA, UK and Australia are free to act.

warspite1

Why is the UK different to the Netherlands please?

Brexit.

ORIGINAL: warspite1




If and when it happens that may be an option. Right now we remain part of Europe.

And for the avoidance of doubt that wasn't an excuse to bring that up; I wasn't sure if there was something within our membership that you were referring to specifically.

ORIGINAL: crsutton

You have to put it in perspective. Although these warship are venerated by us. It is pretty hard to imagine that the average Indonesian would look at it the same way. The Dutch as colonizers were about as brutal as could be and they were just as hated in the DEI as their Japanese liberators. The victorious Allies instead of bending to Indonesian desires for self rule stood by while the Dutch attempted to re-assume control after the war. Why would anyone there care much about monuments to their colonial masters? This is a poor country and the ships are there to be scrapped in the eyes of most of the people. Sometimes when you are poor it is easy to put sentiment aside. I don't know if there is any international law protecting these ships as monuments though. If not, then they are open to salvage just like any sunken ship.


I am not arguing that what the Indonesians are doing is right or wrong. However, I think it is wise to put yourself in their shoes before you start calling them out.

ORIGINAL: Hotei

ORIGINAL: warspite1




If and when it happens that may be an option. Right now we remain part of Europe.

And for the avoidance of doubt that wasn't an excuse to bring that up; I wasn't sure if there was something within our membership that you were referring to specifically.

EU is not the same as Europe and you left just before it implodes.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The smartest person I knew in my early school years, Karen Crow, couldn't spell a lick. It's encouraging to see Alfred is mortal (I realize this is a mis-click rather than not knowing how to spell the word, but still....the guy made a mistake!)

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Yes, it is a touchy and multifaceted topic. I for one wish they could all be left alone (including Titanic), but that is JMHO. Thanks for the post Alfred.