Matrix Games Forums

I've collected some Information together :
A list of Axis/Soviet Planes/Tanks sortet by Type and by Date in some small text files together in a small .ZIP file - easily printable
Included a list of known automatic factory upgrades I have seen so far in test games (You see it in this post)

There seems to be an error in the factory upgrades > Selecting I15 to produce will give you a Hurricane II factory (using computer factory control) and this will be upgraded to Spitfire IX if it becomes available. You'll get no chance to change it back to Soviet plane production unless using an editor

Known factory upgrades :

Pz-IIf > Pz-IVg > Pz-IVh > Pz-IVj
Czech38t > Czech38t(e) > Pz-IVh > Pz-IVj
Pz-IIIg > Pz-IIIh > Pz-IIIj > Pz-IIIm > Stug-IIIg
Pz-IVe > Pz-IVg > Pz-IVh > Pz-IVj
Tiger > Koenigstiger
Stug-IIIb > Stug-IIIg
PzJg-Ib > Marder-III > Elefant > Nashorn > Hetzer
Marder-II > Hetzer

Me-109E > Me-109F > Me-109G > Me-109K
Fw-190A > Fw-190D
Me-110C/D/E > Me-110F/G
Ju-87B > Ju-87D > Fw-190F
Do-17Z > Do-217 > He-177

T60 > T70 > SU-76
T26/BT-7 > T34 M40 > T34 M43 > T34/85
KV-1 M41 > KV-1E > KV-1S > KV-85 > JS-II M > JS-III
KV-II > SU-152 > JSU-152
JS-I > JS-IIM > JS-III
SU-85 > SU-100
SU-122 > JSU-122

i15 > Hurricane II > Spitfire IX >>> not possible to change factory back
i16 > Yak-1 > Yak-7b > Yak-9 > Yak-3 > Yak-9U
Mig-1 > Mig-3 > Yak-7b > Yak-9 > Yak-3 > Yak-9U
LaGG-3 > LaGG-3 s33 > La-5 > La-5FN > La-7
SU-2 > IL-2 > IL-2/M3 > IL-10
Pe-2 > TU-2
SB-2 > IL-4 > TU-2

Planes/Tanks not mentioned have no upgrade path or come from Lend Lease/Strategic Bomber Units/Italy

Edit : For the most recent weaponlist/factory upgrades list please use the Attachment from the last post in this thread !

Please report back if errors are found or if you have suggestions

Use Notepad or similar small texteditors to get a correct display/printout
When i have some time I'll change it to Word/Excel format

In Possum 5 Mig 3 has not converted to Yak 7 yet. Anyone know what it does convert to?

Originally posted by matt.buttsworth
In Possum 5 Mig 3 has not converted to Yak 7 yet. Anyone know what it does convert to?

Do you mean unit/equipment upgrade or factory upgrade ?

The stuff i posted is only for factory upgrades using the standard game files

factory upgrade.

Edit :
Pz-IIIg and Me-109E added
Replaced Bf-109/110 string with Me-109/110 as this is their well known name
Attachment includes newest factory upgrades and weapons list

I have always changed production manually on the first few turns of the 1941 scenario, so I have never observed the computer upgrades. Am I correct in reading that, if left alone, I-15 factories will start producing Russian-made Hurricanes? In my games, the only Hurricanes I ever get are lend-lease. Did the Russians build Hurricanes in WWII?

eric_rocks wrote:I have always changed production manually on the first few turns of the 1941 scenario, so I have never observed the computer upgrades. Am I correct in reading that, if left alone, I-15 factories will start producing Russian-made Hurricanes? In my games, the only Hurricanes I ever get are lend-lease. Did the Russians build Hurricanes in WWII?

Nope, the Russians did not build Hurricanes, I read the memories of a Soviet pilot who fought on one and they had a really tough time just getting spare parts. Being able to produce them is IMHO a big advantage for the Russians . With a cannon rating of 19 they really shoot down lots of German bombers . Also, all the planes they get have a big chance of being destroyed instead of just damaged; and the tanks have good reason to fear them as well. The Hurricane is definitely the best Russian plane up to at least '43. :rolleyes:

K62 wrote:Being able to produce them is IMHO a big advantage for the Russians :rolleyes:

I have not been able to figure out how to set Russian factories to produce Hurricanes. I only get a few each turn via lend-lease. Is it possible to convert factories to produce Hurricanes, and, if so, how?

eric_rocks wrote:I have not been able to figure out how to set Russian factories to produce Hurricanes. I only get a few each turn via lend-lease. Is it possible to convert factories to produce Hurricanes, and, if so, how?

Well, I haven't tried it myself yet, but these guys say it is enough to set the factories to I-15 and have computer factory control on. Then they should get upgraded automatically to Hurricanes.

Hello Matt, the MiG-3 in my scenario will upgrade to the La-5.
The upgrade of the I-15 to Hurricane II is so the computer knows what to do with all those air units flying I-15's. Unfortunately, that also means that if you set a factory to build I-15's then the factory will auto upgrade to build Hurricanes too. You are not able to manually select a factory to produce Hurricanes. (Or any lend lease a/c for that matter)

Well, I have say although it may seem like a big advantage to allow the Sov's to build Hurricanes, any Sov plane has to get through a pile of vastly superior German fighters first, which by 1942 are (in my games) mostly FW190a equiped. In order to keep up with those losses the Sov's gotta build lotsa fighters and they need as high an Air Combat rating as possible. The Air Combat rating is surpassed in Feb '42 by the YaK-7b, so at best it's only a 6 month production phase for the Hurricane. Also Hurricanes cost 7 to build instead of 3 for all Sov fighters until sept '42, so you only get half production there. And since I find the Sovs are struggling for air superiority until '43 at the earliest it might not be wise to set back the upgrading of your airforce in the future by spending it on a much more expensive fighter. Do you really need I-15/16's in in your airforce any longer than you absolutly have to?! I'm in Sept '42 now (from 6/22/41) and only now am I replacing my last 2 I-16 wings!

Flanker Leader wrote:Well, I have say although it may seem like a big advantage to allow the Sov's to build Hurricanes, any Sov plane has to get through a pile of vastly superior German fighters first, which by 1942 are (in my games) mostly FW190a equiped. In order to keep up with those losses the Sov's gotta build lotsa fighters and they need as high an Air Combat rating as possible. The Air Combat rating is surpassed in Feb '42 by the YaK-7b, so at best it's only a 6 month production phase for the Hurricane. Also Hurricanes cost 7 to build instead of 3 for all Sov fighters until sept '42, so you only get half production there.

IMO cannon rating is extremely important in a fighter, for 3 reasons:

1) This is what it attacks bombers with

2) Good cannon means more destroyed opponents instead of just damaged

3) If it's a fighter-bomber (like the Hurricane) it attacks and kills tanks

In my experience with v3.3, even a few Hurricanes getting through CAP can inflict huge losses to the German bombers. They are most annoying and if the Russians can produce them in say 4 factories instead of 1 they will make quite a difference.

Well Mr. K62, in my current game as Sov's in '42 I ain't gettin' nothing through my brother's screen of FW190a's and if anything my single wing of Hurricanes are getting the worst of it. But I love being able to say there's only one way to find out: Perhaps anytime in the future at your convenience we should have ourselves a game of 3.3 (from '41) to find out the answer to this great Hurricane question. Also if I remember correctly yer quite experienced and I'm 2-0 so far so I need to be put in my place. Pistols at Dawn? Oh Yea!

All right. I haven't played 3.3 as Soviet in '41 yet so why not give it a try. I take it that I'm allowed to produce Hurricanes, right? I propose to use Lorenzo's house rules (#10 included) and just modify rule #1 to "if it receives special supply, a corps must fight under the control of the HQ that gave it special supply" (a small modification to rule out mules completely).

Also, no double saves, no replay of unlucky turns or whatever and a spirit of fair play in general. I want to use naval evacuation if necessary and prefer at least 4 turns a week so as not to lose track of what's happening.

Let me know what you think or, if all is ok, just email your first turn directly to af677#bard.edu. If you start a DAR thread I'll post on it too.

I tried to send you an email but that above address is invalid. I should have your turn by tonight, but I'd like to clear up the house rules beforehand. I just have some points I brought up. for discussion. I can't make my printscrn work, and I'd like to post turns. Any ideas? I'm serious, I'v tried EVERYTHING!

bcgnkirov@yahoo.ca

Have you tried the address with a @ instead of the #? I'm giving it this way to fool bots scanning web pages to send junk mail. I don't know why your printscr doesn't work, I always hit it when in WiR and then go to Paint and hit Paste. Always works for me. What house rules clarifications do you wish?