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and another vichy bug
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:53 pm
by joshuamnave
CW declares war on Vichy. The Senegal militia unit which has been sitting in Morocco for a few turns, disappears at the end of the declaration of war stage. Note - it has not been attacked, so no roll was made on vichy loyalty. It just vanishes. Save game from start of DOW phase.
RE: and another vichy bug
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:35 am
by Joseignacio
Provided that Senegal is a (minor) country (I don't have the map here), maybe it is correcting and it shouldn't ever have been able to get to Morocco:
11.11.5 Active major powers
You can move a land unit controlled by an active major power into any hex controlled by:
ï that major power and its aligned minors; or
ï another active major power on the same side (or its controlled minor countries); or
ï a major power or minor country it is at war with.
There are some exceptions:
ï units can’t enter the home country of a non co-operating major power on the same side unless they satisfy the foreign troop commitment rules (see 18.2); and
ï minor country units can’t enter a hex controlled by another minor country aligned with their side unless they satisfy the foreign troop commitment rules.
ï units cannot enter a country controlled by another power on their side without permission of the owner.
RE: and another vichy bug
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:11 pm
by paulderynck
Not likely that since the FTC rules say you are OK if you start the phase in the country. A better question is how did it get there to start with?
RE: and another vichy bug
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:19 pm
by joshuamnave
The Senegal militia was in France when Vichy was established, and later transported to Morocco by a Vichy Transport. My guess is that in the process of establishing Vichy it got tagged as a Vichy unit at the same time all other French units were switched from French to Vichy. Perhaps that's the bug, then. Although there's certainly an argument for that being correct as well. "All units controlled by France that are still in Vichy territory are now controlled by Vichy."
RE: and another vichy bug
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:07 am
by paulderynck
'Controlled by' is not the same as being a Vichy unit. Like any other Colonial it could be transported to France and fight in its defense, but could not stack with another Colonial unit, nor should it be able to be transported to a different colony. This is the same whether it is controlled by France or by Vichy.
But yeah, that is one theory of why it was able to enter Morocco.
RE: and another vichy bug
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:15 am
by Joseignacio
ORIGINAL: paulderynck
Not likely that since the FTC rules say you are OK if you start the phase in the country. A better question is how did it get there to start with?
Obviously
And yes, I was guessing Zartacla most probably hadn't needed to use an HQ to move it to Morocco (could then retrieve HQ to France), so that's what very probably was the bug. Then the game probably solved it through correcting this mistake (in an "overstacking way", deleting the unit) when the war on Vichy is declared and it checks its stance, but that's a wild shot.
RE: and another vichy bug
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:02 am
by Centuur
Since the Senegal MIL is a minor country unit, it should not be allowed to enter Morocco (not even with a Vichy, French or Free French HQ present), unless the first hex that it entered in Morocco was controlled by the other side...
RE: and another vichy bug
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:03 am
by Joseignacio
I thought that, too, but look at what I marked in bold... it could, subject to FTC.
RE: and another vichy bug
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:30 pm
by Centuur
ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
I thought that, too, but look at what I marked in bold... it could, subject to FTC.
You need a Senegalese HQ to fulfill FTC. A French HQ doesn't do the trick here...
RE: and another vichy bug
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:14 pm
by ACMW
ORIGINAL: Centuur
Since the Senegal MIL is a minor country unit, it should not be allowed to enter Morocco (not even with a Vichy, French or Free French HQ present), unless the first hex that it entered in Morocco was controlled by the other side...
I don't think that allows it to be there. Only if Morocco had been conquered - say by Italy - and the Senegalese unit assisted in its liberation by France (prior to Vichy).
RE: and another vichy bug
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:19 pm
by joshuamnave
None of which happened. So yes, it looks like the bug is the Senegal Mil getting reflagged as a Vichy unit along with the French units, then something going weird as a result of that when the CW declares war.
RE: and another vichy bug
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:55 pm
by ACMW
No, I guessed not. I posted because I was interested in the general case. But Vichy: not surprised that this is a troublesome area; I struggle my way through this in the non-electron version of WiF.
RE: and another vichy bug
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:08 am
by Centuur
ORIGINAL: ACMW
ORIGINAL: Centuur
Since the Senegal MIL is a minor country unit, it should not be allowed to enter Morocco (not even with a Vichy, French or Free French HQ present), unless the first hex that it entered in Morocco was controlled by the other side...
I don't think that allows it to be there. Only if Morocco had been conquered - say by Italy - and the Senegalese unit assisted in its liberation by France (prior to Vichy).
If Senegal went Free French, and Morocco is Vichy controlled, Free French units when at war with Vichy may enter Morocco. So in that case, the Senegal MIL could have entered Morocco. But since this didn't happen, there is a bug here.
RE: and another vichy bug
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:40 am
by ACMW
Came across this recently:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39608575
Maybe MWIF was just anticipating this. There then would be no need for a Senegalese HQ.