Matrix Games Forums

Hi,

What if Hitler had not declared war on the US? Are there any mods that would put the entire might of the US against Japan?

Thanks

So how long will you play your campaign then, 7-8 months max I guess[;)]

ORIGINAL: MuguNiner
Hi,
What if Hitler had not declared war on the US? Are there any mods that would put the entire might of the US against Japan?
Thanks

ORIGINAL: Alpha77
So how long will you play your campaign then, 7-8 months max I guess[;)]

Just thinking out loud, that scenario would likely run from Dec 1941 to maybe mid 1944.
I think it would all come down to CV availability, which really won't speed the game up that much....

Just my 2 cents

Well I forgot to say, there is no way USA would be not involved anyway. If Hitler declared anything was not really relevant, perhaps would delay some time, USA coming to Europe, but not prevent it.

Re. the CVs not sure how much their building could speed up, experts need to answer (I am still lacking in shipbuilding etc. knowledge, more air and land guy)

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Well I forgot to say, there is no way USA would be not involved anyway. If Hitler declared anything was not really relevant, perhaps would delay some time, USA coming to Europe, but not prevent it.

Re. the CVs not sure how much their building could speed up, experts need to answer (I am still lacking in shipbuilding etc. knowledge, more air and land guy)

While it is "common knowledge" that the USA followed a 'Europe First' policy, I pointed out in this thread some time ago that while Europe First was the goal, the reality was quite different.
Suffice to say that it wasn't until the American 5th Army was in it's Winter Line deployed around Monte Cassino in January 1944, that the amount of troops, aircraft (excluding 4 engine bombers only), units, etc - deployed to the entire combined ETO & MTO finally BEGAN to reach parity with what the USA had already committed to the war against Japan (and yes that includes casualties, units actually committed to combat, etc - the naval aspect never came anywhere near what the US deployed to the Pacific).

That's why I don't think the difference would be as dramatic as most people suppose - in the first year or two of that hypothetical scenario...

B[:)]

"in the first year or two of that hypothetical scenario... "

Ok agreed I was swept away from my Allied AI game and that I have so much stuff already in July 42 and big bases built (unrealistic but was discussed in 2 thread in main forum the last weeks already). I have 100 4E bombers, seems however I somehow get sent to an older AI version questionable if I continue.

Lets hope we finally get an easy download link to the last and best scen2 non suicidal AI version [:D] (OT here[:'(])

ORIGINAL: Big B

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Well I forgot to say, there is no way USA would be not involved anyway. If Hitler declared anything was not really relevant, perhaps would delay some time, USA coming to Europe, but not prevent it.

Re. the CVs not sure how much their building could speed up, experts need to answer (I am still lacking in shipbuilding etc. knowledge, more air and land guy)

While it is "common knowledge" that the USA followed a 'Europe First' policy, I pointed out in this thread some time ago that while Europe First was the goal, the reality was quite different.
Suffice to say that it wasn't until the American 5th Army was in it's Winter Line deployed around Monte Cassino in January 1944, that the amount of troops, aircraft (excluding 4 engine bombers only), units, etc - deployed to the entire combined ETO & MTO finally BEGAN to reach parity with what the USA had already committed to the war against Japan (and yes that includes casualties, units actually committed to combat, etc - the naval aspect never came anywhere near what the US deployed to the Pacific).

That's why I don't think the difference would be as dramatic as most people suppose - in the first year or two of that hypothetical scenario...

B[:)]

More aircraft would have been available though, and that would likely have stalled the expansion sooner.

I agree about the rest though, it still takes 3 years to get everything needed together to finish.

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Big B

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Well I forgot to say, there is no way USA would be not involved anyway. If Hitler declared anything was not really relevant, perhaps would delay some time, USA coming to Europe, but not prevent it.

Re. the CVs not sure how much their building could speed up, experts need to answer (I am still lacking in shipbuilding etc. knowledge, more air and land guy)

While it is "common knowledge" that the USA followed a 'Europe First' policy, I pointed out in this thread some time ago that while Europe First was the goal, the reality was quite different.
Suffice to say that it wasn't until the American 5th Army was in it's Winter Line deployed around Monte Cassino in January 1944, that the amount of troops, aircraft (excluding 4 engine bombers only), units, etc - deployed to the entire combined ETO & MTO finally BEGAN to reach parity with what the USA had already committed to the war against Japan (and yes that includes casualties, units actually committed to combat, etc - the naval aspect never came anywhere near what the US deployed to the Pacific).

That's why I don't think the difference would be as dramatic as most people suppose - in the first year or two of that hypothetical scenario...

B[:)]

More aircraft would have been available though, and that would likely have stalled the expansion sooner.

I agree about the rest though, it still takes 3 years to get everything needed together to finish.

Key dates:

late 42 - F4U and Beaufighter
Early mid 43 - F6F
late 43/44 - the fruits of the Vinson Acts arrive en masse. In particular, Essex class CVs.

None of these are accelerated by concentration on the Pacific theatre.

The biggest advantage until the Allies achieved carrier parity (or more) on the game would be the number of 4Es the allied player would have access too Ranger and a couple more old and slow battleships would not really slow down the Japanese expansion phase that much.

Historically, or rather alternate historically, I believe even if Hitler had not declared war on the United States we
would have kept significant forces in the Atlantic.

The Japanese were intent on relieving the British Empire of its Pacific colonies, therefore the British
and Japanese still would have fought a war flanked by U.S. interests and a week Asiatic fleet in the Philippines.

Therefore Pearl Harbor probably still would have happened, and Wasp and Hornet would still have joined the Pacific Fleet
to offset battleship losses just as they did in the real world. Considering the considerable German surface raider
fleet in early 1942, I don't think many BB would have been transferred from convoy escort duty in the Atlantic. The
same could be said for the Atlantic Fleet destroyers vis a vis the U=boat threat.

So I'm not sure if the Germans remained neutral in regards to the U.S. it would have made much difference. Just my opinion.

In my post above, replace "week" with "weak".

Sorry, I should have proof-read.