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Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:45 pm
by atheory
This is the quasi counter AAR to Mundys Stalking the Wolf
In addition I will provide my own perspective on the mod as we go. I cannot promise a complete AAR, but I do intend to provide feedback on the mod. Mundy is allowed to view and comment on this thread, as it won't be too specific on tactics that his own nav search and intelligence can't decipher most of the time.


I have answered Mundy's request for an opponent to try out this newish mod. It is LST's Bottlenecks in the Pacific. I highly suggest reading the documentation to fully appreciate the changes.

The concept, in a nutshell, is to slow the pace of the game. The removal of first turn special task force means everything starts in motion at normal speed. No zipping to tactically significant destinations to further enhance the Japanese early advantage while expanding.

There really is no December 7th turn as much of it is already factored in. While the game starts on Dec 7th, it is designed to be an evening turn, meaning the game technically starts the night of December 7th. This means the scenario was really designed to be with Dec 7th Historical Turn and Surprise turned on. You can opt to turn them off if you want to set task force orders to new destinations, but with damage already calculated there is really little else you can do per scenario rules. Meaning, since PH attack already happened, you cannot setup your carrier fleet for a 2nd strike on PH, no on December 7th anyway. Also, air units, like those on Formosa cannot be reactivated. It's a frustrating concept to accept at first. But with December 8th or, the 2nd turn things begin to return to some normalcy.

As this is more a test game, my attempt is to give honest opinions of what I dislike on early turns in the hope these may grow on me by turns 10 and 11. As LST states, this mod was developed towards his play style and not to appease the masses. Therefore, my observations are meant to showcase my experience, instead of being a critique on the scenario itself.

A little more about the scenario, it was built off of DBB scenario 29, with extended map and SL. As the scenario is a larger, more comprehensive mod it is best to download the mod over a fresh install of the game. Which is easy enough to do. I had the scenario up and running in just a matter of minutes with very little effort.

Mundy and I have very limited optional rules. And the scenario takes a lot of the first turn negotiations off the board right away. Surprisingly we're both in Wisconsin so this feels more like a gentlemen's game if ever there was one.

Some initial thoughts after opening the scenario up for the first time.
1. China looks busy as heck. In fact, my eyes really hurt at first, or maybe it was my brain as I attempted to process what I was looking at (image below)

2. A lot of ships around HI are already formed and being sent to yokohama as consolidation point. In a way this could save the Japan play a lot of initial clicks. (image below)

3. A lot of units start in STRAT mode and are moving. This includes the vast majority of units in HI, a bunch in Manchuria/Korea and China as well. I'm not sure the exact purpose for this, other than again collection points. There does seem to be an effort in Manchuria to group Division units together to they can be combined. Maybe it was easier this way than manually moving units via the editor. My only real guess is this is what LST would typically do if he were to play Japan. Must be careful and double check these units. Some bases could be left without garrison or air support units.

4. Attempts were made to give the japanese aircraft their original name, as well as the allied nickname. I find this displeasing to my eyes as I have to learn and memorize them now. Not a bad thing, I just find it annoying and unnecessary.

5. Units that can be combined at the start of the scenario have their parent unit listed in front of the unit name. At first I was thrown off, but quickly grew to love this idea as it saves a lot of clicking, and guessing as to what units belong to what divisions.

6. Task force colors, I was pleasantly surprised by this. Not ground breaking, and I was on the fence about it after reading about it first in the documentation, but when in game I felt the distinction it provided was a bonus. I think amphibious TF could be a different color however.

7. Not sure why I saved this to point number 7, but the pre-calculated damage (ie airfield, aircraft and PH strike damage) already on the map leaves me feeling cheated. Will the Arizona sink? or will the dockyards save it. As the Japan player I wonder if I' missing out on potential VPs, or preventing for the possibility of different results.

8. No alternative initial port strike option. I like having the option to hit a different port other than PH. I like hitting Manila, not necessarily for the submarines, but in keeping the KB in that region to support expansion. And there is no guarantee the Repulse/POW will sink in an historical fashion and are free to roam and cause havoc without fear of the KB lurking by for some time.

9. All air units are set to training @ 100. I would rather they were just stood down with training @ 0 instead. I guess I found a few extra mouse clicks after all.

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:45 pm
by atheory
Busy looking China

Image

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:47 pm
by atheory
all fleets already formed and sailing for Yokohama (just south of Tokyo) One could say a lot of clicks avoided.

Image

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:47 pm
by atheory
Unit ID tags, notice the unit names now include the parent formation they can combine into

Image

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:57 pm
by Yaab
Was Sichuan province really that sparsely populated? I understand that the lowlands needed the additional bases for garrisoning, but the contrast between the two places breaks immersion.

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:59 pm
by Lowpe
Watching with interest.

China is an eyeopener, and no mistake!

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:53 pm
by Bif1961
Good luck and have fun.

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:13 pm
by Mundy
Hey guys.

Yes, looking at China makes my eyes bleed.

GW, don't worry. Arizona and Oklahoma are definitely dead.

For the Dec 7 turn, there was exactly one air event for the whole turn. My Walruses in Hong Kong attacked his troops. The turn just flipped by and ended after that, and I wasn't sure everything was working. I did get all my briefings in Combat Reporter and Intel Monkey.

I'm just enjoying the ride and won't get bent out of shape over anything. I'm having fun. Hopefully LST visits our AARs and this help him out a bit.

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:24 pm
by atheory
Dec 8th has come and gone.

AF bombing in northern Malaya reveal air units bugged out. And my fighters began sweeping allied CAP in the PI with good results. Without those first turn special fast move TF, many of my amphibious TF continue making their way to their invasion points.


Additional observations
1. Engine types have been replaced by a simpler system. Radial early/late, Inline, Jet are the new engine types. Not sure how I feel about this yet. It's just different. It lessens some micromanagement and planning needs while sacrificing some immersion.

2. Wenchow may be poorly defended early on. Maybe Regiment or Brigade. Attempting to quickly take via amphibious operations. 2nd Wave lands on the 9th, with the first assault scheduled for the 10th.

3. Thai has an air and naval force. Should the weak Thai Submarines manage to sink anything, we're throwing a party!

4. One of Japan's CM ships can lay near 400 mines, which I accidentally did on a dot island. [8|]


RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:19 am
by John 3rd
Am really looking forward to your evaluations of the Mod.

Good luck!

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:57 pm
by atheory
Dec 10th

First assault on Wenchow was indecisive. Am confident the follow up assaults will prevail.


Observations
1) Discovered many RGC units can be broken down, this will ease the pain of meeting garrison requirements in china somewhat.
2) The roads/Rail Network can blend a little too well into the map making it hard to distinguish.

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:57 pm
by atheory
Dec 11th

Wenchow fell after Chinese forces withdrew. Reinforcing my view that it is very susceptible to invasion by sea early on. What's a few days for some PI bound troops if you can use them to grab Wenchow so early.

Allies seem to have withdrawn air assets from Luzon. Port strike at manila caught a few SS docked up.

SS I-1 managed to land 2 of 4 torpedoes into the Saratoga which appears on its way to PH. That will slow it's roll for a bit.

A lot of allied planes appear to be building up at Singapore. As I creep forward, I expect some heavy air action in the coming days.


Observations:
1) Most LCU seem to have a certain % disabled at start of scenario. This, in some cases, forces VP losses from lack of garrisons in China. Not sure if this is by design or just an oversight. They will eventually rebuild and fulfill the adequate garrison requirements.

2) Haven't compared to other scenarios, but pilots seem in shorter supply at outset.

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 1:40 am
by atheory
Dec 12th

Relatively quiet, a STF engaged a fleet of small ships leaving Manila destroying all but the one sail boat. That was left alone as a cruel joke, which was later chased down and sunk.

Landed at Mersing. All Malaya troops with access to the rail network seemed to have withdrawn into Singapore. The rest of the peninsula will be quickly captured. Lots of ships in Singapore, I think serving two purposes, one using the repair yards while they can before the mad exodus. And baiting me to make port attacks against a large cap. Either way, we will find out soon enough for with the Mersing landings, the air assault on singapore will begin in earnest.

Enemy ship activity at Rangoon, not sure if these are fleeing ships or reinforcements.


Observations
1. I guess the Yamato is available in 3 days (Dec 15th) it appears it will need dock time as it only has half it guns representing the issues it had historically and will require an upgrade to bring all the big guns into working condition.

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:03 pm
by atheory
Dec 13th

The allied air force at Singapore was unleashed against my Mersing landing task forces. I had setup my CAP in anticipation for this and it performed adequately. Nearly a dozen strikes were made, and mostly due to CAP fizzled out. With nearly 50 ships at Mersing, only 3 AKs sustained bomb hits with minimal damage. The below image gives some insight to the air battle as it was the only area with any real air activity.

Two oilers inbound for PH received a torpedo each from my lurking SS. ASW efforts are nonexistent at the moment. My Subs are emboldened.

Observations
1. The allies are given a bunch of sailboats, they have no armament and very little cargo capacity. For Japan, they are free experience trainers and VPs. Their relevancy can be debated, but only LST know's their true purpose. The novelty of sinking a sail boat faded by the third one.

2. A bunch of APs exist with troop capacity of only 300-500. Some getting use to when the standard before was 1000+


Image


RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:08 pm
by MakeeLearn
2) The roads/Rail Network can blend a little too well into the map making it hard to distinguish.


LST must have used my first upload of the map where the place names were done but not the roads/rails.

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:15 pm
by atheory
ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
2) The roads/Rail Network can blend a little too well into the map making it hard to distinguish.


LST must have used my first upload of the map where the place names were done but not the roads/rails.



Does that mean there is a better map version available somewhere?

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:47 pm
by atheory
Dec 14th

A really quiet turn

Another boring sailboat sunk. I guess the allies have a bunch of these to start with spread out through SE Asia. Maybe they can ferry supplies to small outposts....no clue how Mundy will operate them, if he does. Maybe they will sit in a port. We shall see.

As the new stuff with the scenario becomes old, I'm debating closing the thread to Mundy and begin opening up more dialogue on tactics and strategy.

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:52 pm
by atheory
Dec 15th

Like houdini, after their strike from Singapore, the allied air forces there seemed to have vanished.

My advance continues on Malaya and the PI.

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:01 pm
by MakeeLearn
ORIGINAL: GrauWolf80

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
2) The roads/Rail Network can blend a little too well into the map making it hard to distinguish.


LST must have used my first upload of the map where the place names were done but not the roads/rails.



Does that mean there is a better map version available somewhere?


There is a better roads/rails base map that he used for his mod. I believe he used the extended map then made changes and additions.
tm.asp?m=4151200

RE: Chutes and Ladders (Grauwolf(j) vs Mundy(a) LST Bottleneck Mod

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:49 pm
by atheory
Dec 16th

Air units began pounding the Singapore port. Apparently dozens of ships still remain, although most are small. Many received bomb hits and a few were sunk. Still no signs of Force Z which hasn't been seen yet. It either sailed north, or with what I'm thinking, it sailed south and is linking up with American warships to form a potent battle fleet.

Additional landings take place on Luzon as allied forces continue their steadfast withdrawal towards Bataan.