Page 1 of 2
Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:33 am
by geofflambert
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/shoul ... le/2626787
Concerning an article in the Washington Examiner (above), first I know nothing of this paper and if anyone does please speak up. In the article is a claim by a Hans Kristensen who is the director of the nuclear weapons committee of the Federation of American Scientists that the US keeps 50 B-61 gravity bombs at Incirlik. I don't know anything about the FAS or if they're legit. As far as I can tell Hans is a Danish Citizen although the Wiki on him lists him as residing in the US. As far as his education goes the Wiki only lists his high school (gymnasium). It therefor appears that Hans is neither American or a scientist.
The US will neither confirm or deny the claim but if true, in my opinion that would be nuts. President Erdogan declared the other day that evolution will no longer be taught in schools, as an example of what kind of guy he is. It's just a matter of time before Turkey is kicked out of NATO. Beginning with the second Iraq war they have been becoming more and more difficult to deal with and I don't think we (the US) should be selling them advanced weaponry anymore and should be removing our assets from same. The diplomats will not like that idea or at least will want paint a good face on it as I believe the main reason Turkey was admitted to NATO was to get them to stop having wars with Greece and to promote their once friendly relations with Israel.
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:37 am
by MakeeLearn
It's all about Grease...
The Captain says nuking a Turkey is best done by a Away Team, only Gorn ships have built-in deep fryers.
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:03 am
by tarkalak
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
Concerning an article in the Washington Examiner (above), first I know nothing of this paper and if anyone does please speak up. In the article is a claim by a Hans Kristensen who is the director of the nuclear weapons committee of the Federation of American Scientists that the US keeps 50 B-61 gravity bombs at Incirlik. I don't know anything about the FAS or if they're legit. As far as I can tell Hans is a Danish Citizen although the Wiki on him lists him as residing in the US. As far as his education goes the Wiki only lists his high school (gymnasium). It therefor appears that Hans is neither American or a scientist.
The US will neither confirm or deny the claim but if true, in my opinion that would be nuts. President Erdogan declared the other day that evolution will no longer be taught in schools, as an example of what kind of guy he is. It's just a matter of time before Turkey is kicked out of NATO. Beginning with the second Iraq war they have been becoming more and more difficult to deal with and I don't think we (the US) should be selling them advanced weaponry anymore and should be removing our assets from same. The diplomats will not like that idea or at least will want paint a good face on it as I believe the main reason Turkey was admitted to NATO was to get them to stop having wars with Greece and to promote their once friendly relations with Israel.
Turkey was admitted in NATO (and had its economy funded immensely) in order to pull it away from communism.
The US put nukes in Turkey before the Cuban crisis. This caused the USSR to put their nukes in Cuba in order to get the US ones removed from Turkey. At least this is the way USSR claimed the whole thing happened.
I don't think that Turkey will get kicked out from NATO anytime soon. Unless Erdogan goes completely nuts. They are too close to today's hotspot.
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:19 am
by Jorge_Stanbury
International alliances won't remain static. I mean Japan was a very close ally to the UK up until the 1920s. Iran was the most important Muslim ally to the US up until 1979
So who knows? but I agree only a major stupid move that has international implications will trigger some form of NATO expulsion. That said, any talks of Turkey joining the CE are off-the-table, assuming of course that there was a chance in the first place
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:55 am
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: tarkalak
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
Concerning an article in the Washington Examiner (above), first I know nothing of this paper and if anyone does please speak up. In the article is a claim by a Hans Kristensen who is the director of the nuclear weapons committee of the Federation of American Scientists that the US keeps 50 B-61 gravity bombs at Incirlik. I don't know anything about the FAS or if they're legit. As far as I can tell Hans is a Danish Citizen although the Wiki on him lists him as residing in the US. As far as his education goes the Wiki only lists his high school (gymnasium). It therefor appears that Hans is neither American or a scientist.
The US will neither confirm or deny the claim but if true, in my opinion that would be nuts. President Erdogan declared the other day that evolution will no longer be taught in schools, as an example of what kind of guy he is. It's just a matter of time before Turkey is kicked out of NATO. Beginning with the second Iraq war they have been becoming more and more difficult to deal with and I don't think we (the US) should be selling them advanced weaponry anymore and should be removing our assets from same. The diplomats will not like that idea or at least will want paint a good face on it as I believe the main reason Turkey was admitted to NATO was to get them to stop having wars with Greece and to promote their once friendly relations with Israel.
Turkey was admitted in NATO (and had its economy funded immensely) in order to pull it away from communism.
The US put nukes in Turkey before the Cuban crisis. This caused the USSR to put their nukes in Cuba in order to get the US ones removed from Turkey. At least this is the way USSR claimed the whole thing happened.
I don't think that Turkey will get kicked out from NATO anytime soon. Unless Erdogan goes completely nuts. They are too close to today's hotspot.
And the US was already secretly planning to remove those a-bombs from Turkey when the Cuban missile crisis occurred, and JFK publicly agreed to remove the bombs to give the Russians a face-saving "win". I highly doubt the US has put nukes there since then. The region is just too unstable and there are plenty of long-range nukes to do what nukes in Turkey could do.
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:56 am
by Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: tarkalak
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
Concerning an article in the Washington Examiner (above), first I know nothing of this paper and if anyone does please speak up. In the article is a claim by a Hans Kristensen who is the director of the nuclear weapons committee of the Federation of American Scientists that the US keeps 50 B-61 gravity bombs at Incirlik. I don't know anything about the FAS or if they're legit. As far as I can tell Hans is a Danish Citizen although the Wiki on him lists him as residing in the US. As far as his education goes the Wiki only lists his high school (gymnasium). It therefor appears that Hans is neither American or a scientist.
The US will neither confirm or deny the claim but if true, in my opinion that would be nuts. President Erdogan declared the other day that evolution will no longer be taught in schools, as an example of what kind of guy he is. It's just a matter of time before Turkey is kicked out of NATO. Beginning with the second Iraq war they have been becoming more and more difficult to deal with and I don't think we (the US) should be selling them advanced weaponry anymore and should be removing our assets from same. The diplomats will not like that idea or at least will want paint a good face on it as I believe the main reason Turkey was admitted to NATO was to get them to stop having wars with Greece and to promote their once friendly relations with Israel.
Turkey was admitted in NATO (and had its economy funded immensely) in order to pull it away from communism.
The US put nukes in Turkey before the Cuban crisis. This caused the USSR to put their nukes in Cuba in order to get the US ones removed from Turkey. At least this is the way USSR claimed the whole thing happened.
I don't think that Turkey will get kicked out from NATO anytime soon. Unless Erdogan goes completely nuts. They are too close to today's hotspot.
And the US was already secretly planning to remove those a-bombs from Turkey when the Cuban missile crisis occurred, and JFK publicly agreed to remove the bombs to give the Russians a face-saving "win". I highly doubt the US has put nukes there since then. The region is just too unstable and there are plenty of long-range nukes to do what nukes in Turkey could do.
Yup.
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:57 pm
by MakeeLearn
From Aug 18, 2016 (updated: Aug 31, 2016)
US moves nuclear weapons from Turkey to Romania
http://www.euractiv.com/section/global- ... o-romania/
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:07 pm
by BillBrown
disregard
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:34 pm
by AW1Steve
B-61 GP tactical nuclear bombs are stashed, per NATO agreement , in a number of countries that did not have nukes of their own. Turkey is one such nation. The USAF controls the bomb , guards it, it has permissive action links (just like the big one's) controlled by the US National command authority , and further more has a special disabling feature on each bomb. A small key pad is attached , which may have a code punched in, permanently disabling the bomb. Supposedly the weapon can returned to the manufacturer where a process exist to restore it to working order.
Keep in mind that these are very small weapons in the low kiloton range. The weapon has a "dial-a-yield" function , allowing various kiloton yield amounts.
I take this to read that even if a NATO country goes rogue , the weapon is useless without PAL's , and can be made even more useless by using the disabling keypad.
I don't know about you lot, but this makes me feel a whole lot better. It actually sounds like the Pentagon has considered this possibility, and come up with several plans to deal with it. [:)]
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:35 pm
by MakeeLearn
I think the crux of this thread is that someone wants their own nuke.
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:42 pm
by AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
I think the crux of this thread is that someone wants their own nuke.
There used to be a saying in the 1970's that the Pentagon was afraid of "A kook with a nuke". Imagine how terrified they would be of "a kooky GORN with a nuke!". Daffy Khadaffy would hold nothing on him.
Anyhow , the title of the Thread is Nukes in Turkey? I'm saying 1) yes , there definitely are and 2) they probably are not much of a threat. Gorn's playing around with "Doc Brown nuclear fission chemistry sets" however probably are. Time for me to relocate back to Florida. I currently live too close to the blast radius. [X(]
[:(][:D]
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:17 pm
by Chickenboy
Consider the source of this article, MakeeLearn. I don't take this at face value.
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:20 pm
by Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
I think the crux of this thread is that someone wants their own nuke.
Well, yeah.
You can start with the list of every country in the world. Subtract the acknowledged nuclear powers. Subtract Israel. Subtract a relatively small handful of countries that have disavowed nuclear arms publicly forevermore. Add in non-state terrorist organizations that would like a nuke of their very own. There's your list. It's a big one.
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:06 pm
by MakeeLearn
ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Consider the source of this article, MakeeLearn. I don't take this at face value.
That's what I was hinting at... Nuke here.. Nuke there... Find the Nuke... What Nuke
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:11 pm
by MakeeLearn
ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
I think the crux of this thread is that someone wants their own nuke.
Well, yeah.
You can start with the list of every country in the world. Subtract the acknowledged nuclear powers. Subtract Israel. Subtract a relatively small handful of countries that have disavowed nuclear arms publicly forevermore. Add in non-state terrorist organizations that would like a nuke of their very own. There's your list. It's a big one.
I was referring to a certain thread starter. [;)]
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:14 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Consider the source of this article, MakeeLearn. I don't take this at face value.
That's what I was hinting at... Nuke here.. Nuke there... Find the Nuke... What Nuke
Tom Clancy's "Sum of All Fears" posits terrorists getting their hands on an Israeli nuke and harvesting the plutonium core, then manufacturing the rest of the bomb. Even if the fail-safe mechanism on those bombs disables a fission reaction (by blowing apart the nuclear material into chunks too small to achieve fission), the bad guys could still make a dirty A-bomb.
With all the cruise missiles and ballistic missile nukes, I simply don't see a reason to put tac nukes so far forward when there is no imminent threat that would require them. Making Russia nervous about a first strike is not the same as deterring them.
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:30 pm
by geofflambert
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
I think the crux of this thread is that someone wants their own nuke.
There used to be a saying in the 1970's that the Pentagon was afraid of "A kook with a nuke". Imagine how terrified they would be of "a kooky GORN with a nuke!". Daffy Khadaffy would hold nothing on him.
Anyhow , the title of the Thread is Nukes in Turkey? I'm saying 1) yes , there definitely are and 2) they probably are not much of a threat. Gorn's playing around with "Doc Brown nuclear fission chemistry sets" however probably are. Time for me to relocate back to Florida. I currently live too close to the blast radius. [X(]
[:(][:D]
Hell, they don't even let me play around with disrupter beams. [:(]
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:33 pm
by geofflambert
Oh, those were Jupiter missiles in Turkey back in '62, not bombs.
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:41 pm
by Mobeer
Some more critical analysis of whether the transfer happened:
http://www.nationalsecurity.news/2016-0 ... tempt.html
While the Washington Post believe the weapons have not been moved:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/shoul ... le/2626787
RE: Nukes in Turkey?
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:13 pm
by BBfanboy
That second link is the Washington Examiner, not the Washington Post. I have no idea of the credentials of the Examiner.
It does seem to make it clear that leaving the nukes in Turkey is a political, symbolic gesture, saying that "Turkey is still a valued and trusted NATO ally". We'll see.