Matrix Games Forums

Haven't been able to find anything on the forum that specifically addresses this but what do folks recommend reaction be set at for carrier task forces when the presence of enemy carrier task forces is suspected? Thanks!

The Reaction setting doesn't matter a whit for carrier TFs.

The special carrier reaction to other carriers is a completely separate feature in the code altogether.

The Reaction "spinner" in the bottom right is for Surface Combat TFs, ASW TFs, and sub patrol TFs that are actually on patrol (not set to a destination and remain on station). It does nothing else except control the distance that TFs on such patrols are allowed to react.

The Reaction setting doesn't matter a whit for carrier TFs.

Is that true? I've read in the manual that CV TF's have an automatic reaction of one, but not that the setting is unused.

AFAIK it is used but the 'TF commander' override is more aggressive than with other TF types. That probably is realistic although it certainly can be frustrating when a player wants to exercise positive control in some circumstance.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

AFAIK it is used but the 'TF commander' override is more aggressive than with other TF types. That probably is realistic although it certainly can be frustrating when a player wants to exercise positive control in some circumstance.

Agreed, and that is what I thought as well.

ORIGINAL: rustysi

The Reaction setting doesn't matter a whit for carrier TFs.

Is that true? I've read in the manual that CV TF's have an automatic reaction of one, but not that the setting is unused.

If they have an automatic reaction of one, then the setting doesn't matter, does it? [;)]

The previous CV reaction behavior with CVs reacting multiple times was a bug that I finally got Michael to fix (insert chest puffing here, because I mean seriously how had that not been fixed before). I still don't think it's working properly as it doesn't appear to occur at ranges longer than 4 or 5 hexes, but my attitude on it now is kinda "whatever."

ORIGINAL: witpqs

AFAIK it is used but the 'TF commander' override is more aggressive than with other TF types. That probably is realistic although it certainly can be frustrating when a player wants to exercise positive control in some circumstance.

The TF commander being more aggressive would influence whether or not they reacted towards enemy CV TFs within the parameters of the automatic TF reaction, which does not care whether your reaction spinner is at 0 or at 6 or anything in between.

If they have an automatic reaction of one, then the setting doesn't matter, does it?

It does if you want them to react further. One is one, not six.

ORIGINAL: rustysi

If they have an automatic reaction of one, then the setting doesn't matter, does it?

It does if you want them to react further. One is one, not six.

But the CV reaction is not six, it is always and forever one (1). Which is irrespective of the setting, hence the setting doesn't matter.

Unless you haven't updated to at least the beta patch where Michael fixed the bogus chain reactions.

I'll restate it for emphasis: the reaction setting for TFs is only for various surface forces and submarine patrol TFs that are set to patrol. Nothing more, and nothing less. Transport TFs won't do anything with it. CV TFs won't do anything with it. TFs that are set to "remain on station" will not react. TFs that are heading to a destination, not patrolling a zone, will not react.

Feel free to test it and prove me wrong about the latter two, but color me skeptical.

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: rustysi

If they have an automatic reaction of one, then the setting doesn't matter, does it?

It does if you want them to react further. One is one, not six.

But the CV reaction is not six, it is always and forever one (1). Which is irrespective of the setting, hence the setting doesn't matter.
In my last PBM my opponents carriers reacted more than one hex on at least one occasion. The way it works they can react one hex at a time and might pass the checks to do so at various points during the turn. It is most often only one hex.

Unless you haven't updated to at least the beta patch where Michael fixed the bogus chain reactions.

I'll restate it for emphasis: the reaction setting for TFs is only for various surface forces and submarine patrol TFs that are set to patrol. Nothing more, and nothing less. Transport TFs won't do anything with it. CV TFs won't do anything with it. TFs that are set to "remain on station" will not react. TFs that are heading to a destination, not patrolling a zone, will not react.
False. I have tested it, and I have used it extensively. I wrote a piece on it for the forum a long time ago that got posted to the wiki. In summary: *ONLY* Remain on Station cancels React orders. Combat TFs that are on patrol do React (as you
said) *AND* those that have Retirement Allowed (or whatever the silly wording is) also React. We are only talking about the various flavors of combat TF, merchants, tankers, transports, and such react only to save their own skin.

Feel free to test it and prove me wrong about the latter two, but color me skeptical.

Doesn't reaction also apply to fleeing from a superior enemy? I.E. if an ASW TF got a whiff of a nearby enemy SCTF with powerful ships, the reaction setting would figure into whether they flee or not - either the range from the threat, or the distance the ASW TF would flee?

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Doesn't reaction also apply to fleeing from a superior enemy? I.E. if an ASW TF got a whiff of a nearby enemy SCTF with powerful ships, the reaction setting would figure into whether they flee or not - either the range from the threat, or the distance the ASW TF would flee?

I don't know if those situations use the React range setting. I certainly see convoys "fleeing from enemy surface threat" and so on.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: rustysi



It does if you want them to react further. One is one, not six.

But the CV reaction is not six, it is always and forever one (1). Which is irrespective of the setting, hence the setting doesn't matter.
In my last PBM my opponents carriers reacted more than one hex on at least one occasion. The way it works they can react one hex at a time and might pass the checks to do so at various points during the turn. It is most often only one hex.

Unless you haven't updated to at least the beta patch where Michael fixed the bogus chain reactions.

I'll restate it for emphasis: the reaction setting for TFs is only for various surface forces and submarine patrol TFs that are set to patrol. Nothing more, and nothing less. Transport TFs won't do anything with it. CV TFs won't do anything with it. TFs that are set to "remain on station" will not react. TFs that are heading to a destination, not patrolling a zone, will not react.
False. I have tested it, and I have used it extensively. I wrote a piece on it for the forum a long time ago that got posted to the wiki. In summary: *ONLY* Remain on Station cancels React orders. Combat TFs that are on patrol do React (as you
said) *AND* those that have Retirement Allowed (or whatever the silly wording is) also React. We are only talking about the various flavors of combat TF, merchants, tankers, transports, and such react only to save their own skin.

Feel free to test it and prove me wrong about the latter two, but color me skeptical.

I have NEVER seen a combat TF that does not have a patrol order react.
I have had combat TFs sitting in a port with a reaction range of 6 sit there and do nothing when an enemy TF invades another port three hexes away.
In fact I struggled with this considerably in my early days playing this game because I could never seem to get the reactions the manual described.
It wasn't until I started giving TFs patrol orders that I started seeing reactions.
A TF with a one hex patrol pattern occupying a port with a reaction range of 6 will defend the port against incursions AND react up to six hexes.
It just worked for me a couple of nights ago as I had a British cruiser TF patrolling Rangoon that reacted to the AIs attempt to sea lift troops into Moulmien, sinking the entire force.
Had the cruiser TF simply been sitting in the port without a patrol order they would NOT have reacted.

Patrolling is also the best way to set up an at sea intercept. Don't just sortie hoping to cross paths.
Lay out a patrol path in the vicinity of where you expect the enemy TF to be and the reaction function will do the rest.

I have never seen a combat TF that does not have a patrol setting react, either. I'm thinking in particular of my many invasions where I've seen small groups of IJN E's on the way in and set one TF to patrol for them while others head to the beaches. I never miss messages in the movement phases - never once seen the TFs without patrol orders react. Maybe they do, but I've never seen it in what - 5000 turns now? Maybe some kind soul will post up a detailed, multi-run test of:

1) TF sitting in port with Retirement Allowed and a reaction setting, but no patrol zone. Then have enemy TFs with methods of detecting them sitting just 1 hex outside the port.

2) TF with Retirement Allowed transiting past a detected enemy TF while having a reaction setting.


And no, the reaction setting does not affect fleeing from enemy threats. That is all in the routing (whether or not they will flee) and in their speed/operations points (whether or not they have enough movement left to continue fleeing from threats). Reaction is entirely an offensive action - combat forces reacting to enemies that they are going to attempt to hunt down and kill.

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

2) TF with Retirement Allowed transiting past a detected enemy TF while having a reaction setting.

This one is confusing, as CTF will engage in combat when crossing paths, I don't recall whether it reacts too

I believe I have had SAG Task Forces react with no patrol setting when moving from point A to point B while enroute.

I have not had any reaction from a TF sitting in a port base with no movement orders, however a 1 hex patrol destination does seem to be the best method for getting reactions/engagements

I was under the impression that patrolling ASW task forces never react....

ORIGINAL: szmike

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

2) TF with Retirement Allowed transiting past a detected enemy TF while having a reaction setting.

This one is confusing, as CTF will engage in combat when crossing paths, I don't recall whether it reacts too

They would attempt to flee. What is actually happening is the enemy combat TF is engaging, or else it is a chance encounter between a CV TF and another non-combat TF (say, amphibious or cargo) and both TFs will attempt to evade rather than engage.

That is not really what I meant by "transiting past." By that I meant a TF sailing by a detected enemy TF that is outside of their hex and reacting to it. Perhaps I should capitalize Reacting because it is a specific action that I am referring to.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I believe I have had SAG Task Forces react with no patrol setting when moving from point A to point B while enroute.

I have not had any reaction from a TF sitting in a port base with no movement orders, however a 1 hex patrol destination does seem to be the best method for getting reactions/engagements

I was under the impression that patrolling ASW task forces never react....

They definitely do. Watch your replays carefully.

It doesn't directly result in combat, but ASW TFs react to detected subs (there may be a 1-hex limit on this, I'm not sure, but I haven't seen large reaction moves by ASW TFs). This will place the ASW TF in the same hex as the subs (ideally) where there is a chance for either a regular ASW action or for the sub itself to initiate contact against a target that it shouldn't want to engage.

I can confirm seeing ASW groups react.

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I have NEVER seen a combat TF that does not have a patrol order react. I have.
I have had combat TFs sitting in a port with a reaction range of 6 sit there and do nothing when an enemy TF invades another port three hexes away.
In fact I struggled with this considerably in my early days playing this game because I could never seem to get the reactions the manual described.
It wasn't until I started giving TFs patrol orders that I started seeing reactions.
A TF with a one hex patrol pattern occupying a port with a reaction range of 6 will defend the port against incursions AND react up to six hexes.
It just worked for me a couple of nights ago as I had a British cruiser TF patrolling Rangoon that reacted to the AIs attempt to sea lift troops into Moulmien, sinking the entire force.
Had the cruiser TF simply been sitting in the port without a patrol order they would NOT have reacted.

Patrolling is also the best way to set up an at sea intercept. Completely agree! Don't just sortie hoping to cross paths.
Lay out a patrol path in the vicinity of where you expect the enemy TF to be and the reaction function will do the rest.

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I can confirm seeing ASW groups react.

I've seen it too and been told on this forum that it does not happen! [:D]