Matrix Games Forums

I have seen AAR's that take out Brest-Litovsk on turn 1 and others that by-pass -- cutoff and clean up later. The issue I see is that fortress Brest-Litovsk extends a zone of control and attacks on turn #1 have a surprise factor.
I can see Fritz Schlieper arguing "well we can wait for the fortress to starve but it seems this colored cloud looms over the land to the north that cuts down on our movement points .. no firepower just a cloud ..." [8D]

Ok what does the group consider in attacking first turn vs waiting ..?

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I have seen AAR's that take out Brest-Litovsk on turn 1 and others that by-pass -- cutoff and clean up later. The issue I see is that fortress Brest-Litovsk extends a zone of control and attacks on turn #1 have a surprise factor.
I can see Fritz Schlieper arguing "well we can wait for the fortress to starve but it seems this colored cloud looms over the land to the north that cuts down on our movement points .. no firepower just a cloud ..." [8D]

Ok what does the group consider in attacking first turn vs waiting ..?

Fritz Schlieper

I surround turn 1 and kill on turn 2. The Russian handicap in the opening turns is the lack of Units. The more you make disappear for awhile the better your situation is when you do meet his line in later turns. Just my 2 cents.

So few posters these days, don't know if that makes the community.

Same question applies (approx) to Riga and the whole Lvov pocket. Either way not a game breaker, style or personal choice is about it.

I retreat to pocket t1 to get them out of the entrenchment, then kill t2. Special t1 surprise rules (in manual) make taking all hexes much easier

ORIGINAL: charlie0311

So few posters these days, don't know if that makes the community.

Same question applies (approx) to Riga and the whole Lvov pocket. Either way not a game breaker, style or personal choice is about it.

I retreat to pocket t1 to get them out of the entrenchment, then kill t2. Special t1 surprise rules (in manual) make taking all hexes much easier

Holiday season in Europe and Vacation time in America.

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I have seen AAR's that take out Brest-Litovsk on turn 1 and others that by-pass -- cutoff and clean up later. The issue I see is that fortress Brest-Litovsk extends a zone of control and attacks on turn #1 have a surprise factor.

Ok what does the group consider in attacking first turn vs waiting ..?

For me the need for speed is the number 1 factor. Getting Brest-Litovsk out straight away will put your 2nd Panzer motorised closer to or past Minsk on turn 1. Usually the units that retreat or rout out of B-L will be in the marshes. If you send a motorised division to ZOC Luninets on turn 1 they will have no rail route to escape and will be isolated and destroyed within a turn or two anyway.

Incidentally I recommend you do not use the 2Pz infantry to do it, the adjacent 4th army corps, or even the one above that can do it, and leave your 2Panzer infantry to advance as far forward as possible. Also if you like to make von Kluge OKH boss, start your turn with 4th army and wait until it takes Brest-litovsk and any other combats. He is an excellent army commander (to make up for the command points overload) and is better there for 4th army - you can make him OKH boss in turn 1 after 4th army has finished and before any other armies move!

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I have seen AAR's that take out Brest-Litovsk on turn 1 and others that by-pass -- cutoff and clean up later. The issue I see is that fortress Brest-Litovsk extends a zone of control and attacks on turn #1 have a surprise factor.

Ok what does the group consider in attacking first turn vs waiting ..?

For me the need for speed is the number 1 factor. Getting Brest-Litovsk out straight away will put your 2nd Panzer motorised closer to or past Minsk on turn 1. Usually the units that retreat or rout out of B-L will be in the marshes. If you send a motorised division to ZOC Luninets on turn 1 they will have no rail route to escape and will be isolated and destroyed within a turn or two anyway.

Incidentally I recommend you do not use the 2Pz infantry to do it, the adjacent 4th army corps, or even the one above that can do it, and leave your 2Panzer infantry to advance as far forward as possible. Also if you like to make von Kluge OKH boss, start your turn with 4th army and wait until it takes Brest-litovsk and any other combats. He is an excellent army commander (to make up for the command points overload) and is better there for 4th army - you can make him OKH boss in turn 1 after 4th army has finished and before any other armies move!

Yup works great too. As long as the Soviets dont disband these units, or rail them out if they rally on turn 1 before you cut off the swamp. I personally disband units in the swamp if Im able to get them far enough away from German units.

Thanks to everybody for the sound advice! I am testing Telemecus suggestion today.
The No HQBU AAR in my opinion really tests a lot of possibilities with ramifications as Telemecus suggests in his post. As for example spending AP's on replacing Halder with von Kludge leads to an optimization that the 4th Army taking Brest-Litovsk...
No easy answers and lots to think about. The real problem in my view is decisions made on turn 1 might not become fully apparent until turn 20 .. or turn 40 etc ..and I lack the experience to really connect the dots .. thus my inquiry.

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Yup works great too. As long as the Soviets dont disband these units, or rail them out if they rally on turn 1 before you cut off the swamp. I personally disband units in the swamp if Im able to get them far enough away from German units.

Actually that is a good point - the magical teleportation acts the game allows are always an eye catcher. Being able to air transfer out damaged aircraft as well as disband units to send them 1000s of miles home instantaneously is always a marvel!

Depends on where they land, but if you cut the rail line at Luninets, and the southern marsh rail line North of Rovno somewhere, they will not get to rail on turn 1. And often then you can make a pocket using the clear ground in the marshes north of Rovno to isolate the south western corner of the marshes (turn 2?). At least then you have a race of Soviet units trying to escape a pocket traversing Axis controlled hexes, and German infantry that can surround them in the marshes more quickly.

Otherwise HardLuckYetAgain is right the units will escape (even if not disband), and it becomes a straight question of land grab on turn 1 versus pinning units at the border.

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
I lack the experience to really connect the dots .. thus my inquiry.

Unfortunately with this game the more experience you get, the more questions you will have! [:(]

Actually that is a good point - the magical teleportation acts the game allows are always an eye catcher. Being able to air transfer out damaged aircraft as well as disband units to send them 1000s of miles home instantaneously is always a marvel!

I think the powers to be are going to fix/change this behavior in the next patch? My understanding is that the ZOCs transversed when relocating were not being accounted for, and relocating units were getting a free pass ...
At least HQ and routed units will be accounted for ...\

Stay Tuned [8D]