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unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:00 am
by Edward75
Some sources indicate that this:
1. An unknown IJN Battleship is illuminated by a US destroyer or PT boat during the Battle of Surigao Strait. It is either Fusou, or Fusou's sister ship Yamashiro. The angle of the ship obscuring the tell-tale midsection turrets.
2. A Japanese Kongo-class battleship (probably the Kirishima) is captured in the glare of US searchlights during the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, November 13th, 1942. The photo was likely taken from the USS San Francisco (CA-38)
I think that both are not correct. Your opinions?
What is battleship, date, place?
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:08 am
by Grfin Zeppelin
Not sure but its certainly not the Fuso or Yamashiro. The pagoda looks completly different.
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:32 am
by crsutton
Definitely not illuminated from a PT boat. The angle and and illuminating power of the searchlight is way too high. Maybe a DD but why would a DD illuminate and risk getting blown out of the water as such close range? The ship in question shows no battle damage to my eye, I wonder if that photo was not taken by a fellow Japanese ship while on maneuvers.
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:21 am
by MakeeLearn
Some say "Kirishima" if so it's Guadalcanal not as most say "Battle of Surigao Strait."
https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic ... that-ship/
Searchlight from a floatplane?
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:31 am
by MakeeLearn
OR
Nagato during the Battle off Samar,
"many believe it is a photo of Kirishima Class Battleship taken during First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, or Fuso Class during the Battle of Surigao Strait. But I have a different opinion because it looks more like a Nagato Class Battleship. I think it may be Nagato during the Battle off Samar, but I could be wrong for the battle because it was conducted during the morning. It could be other night battles participated by the Nagato.
- The outline of the bridge in the photo does not match the. Fuso. The height of the bridge it should be higher than the one shown in the photo.
- The Kirishima has two funnels, but the ship in the photo only has one.
- The profile of the ship in the photo is lower than most Fuso / Kirishima Class battleship. It looks more like the Nagato. The other similar profile is the Hiei (Kirishima Class Battleship). So it could be possibility the Hiei. "
https://www.flickr.com/photos/acstudio/21305352432/
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:34 am
by Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: crsutton
Definitely not illuminated from a PT boat. The angle and and illuminating power of the searchlight is way too high. Maybe a DD but why would a DD illuminate and risk getting blown out of the water as such close range? The ship in question shows no battle damage to my eye, I wonder if that photo was not taken by a fellow Japanese ship while on maneuvers.
This is my guess as well. That BB is only a few hundred yards off. I don't recall any tale of an American DD being *that* close during either battle.
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:16 pm
by pontiouspilot
I agree re angle etc....I wonder if taken from plane??
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:25 pm
by geofflambert
It could have been Nagato retreating the night after Samar as seen by a US search plane.
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:37 pm
by geofflambert
Quote from "Sea of Thunder", this is after Musashi sank and before the Battle off Samar: "In the gathering darkness, a lone American night search plane flew high above Kurita's battered fleet. The pilot radioed his carrier, the Independence, that the Japanese battle fleet had turned around once again and now was headed on a southeasterly course - headed toward the San Bernardino Strait. The message reached Flag Plot aboard the New Jersey at about 8:00 P.M.
from page 226
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:59 pm
by geofflambert
This from "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" pg. 131:
"Meanwhile, Kurita's powerful squadron raced through San Bernardino Strait by night, fighting a treacherous eight-knot current but aided by the glow of navigation lights arrayed on either side of the channel. The fact that the lights had been switched on had been duly noted by Third Fleet fliers. Night reconnaissance pilots from the light carrier Independence had spotted the beacons and reported the illuminated channel as a suspicious sign, even as Halsey was steaming north in preparation for a morning strike on Ozawa."
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:25 pm
by GetAssista
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
It could have been Nagato retreating the night after Samar as seen by a US search plane.
It looks like Nagato class. Only Kongos and Nagatos had short midships and one funnel sticking out of the middle. But secondary guns casemates are Nagatish. Plus aft superstructure does not look like a second funnel that Kongos had
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:29 pm
by witpqs
ORIGINAL: crsutton
Definitely not illuminated from a PT boat. The angle and and illuminating power of the searchlight is way too high. Maybe a DD but why would a DD illuminate and risk getting blown out of the water as such close range? The ship in question shows no battle damage to my eye, I wonder if that photo was not taken by a fellow Japanese ship while on maneuvers.
It even looks to me too high for a DD. In fact, it's angling
down to the BB. What searchlight can angle
down to a BB? Either shore-mounted or aircraft mounted.
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:29 pm
by witpqs
ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
OR
Nagato during the Battle off Samar,
"many believe it is a photo of Kirishima Class Battleship taken during First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, or Fuso Class during the Battle of Surigao Strait. But I have a different opinion because it looks more like a Nagato Class Battleship. I think it may be Nagato during the Battle off Samar, but I could be wrong for the battle because it was conducted during the morning. It could be other night battles participated by the Nagato.
- The outline of the bridge in the photo does not match the. Fuso. The height of the bridge it should be higher than the one shown in the photo.
- The Kirishima has two funnels, but the ship in the photo only has one.
- The profile of the ship in the photo is lower than most Fuso / Kirishima Class battleship. It looks more like the Nagato. The other similar profile is the Hiei (Kirishima Class Battleship). So it could be possibility the Hiei. "
https://www.flickr.com/photos/acstudio/21305352432/
The battle off Samar was in daylight.
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:49 pm
by Lecivius
The battle was, but the previous airstrike force Kurita to retire, who then reversed course and came on again. Search planes noted a lot of this. I wonder if this was not a search plane [&:] An interesting conundrum, to be sure.
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:58 pm
by witpqs
ORIGINAL: Lecivius
The battle was, but the previous airstrike force Kurita to retire, who then reversed course and came on again. Search planes noted a lot of this. I wonder if this was not a search plane [&:] An interesting conundrum, to be sure.
Yes and BTW I missed that MakeeLearn has in his quote that the battle was in the morning.
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:59 pm
by Buckrock
US search aircraft relied on radar when locating/shadowing the IJN TFs at night during the Leyte battles. Swooping down to make a searchlight
run against an enemy TF would seem an unnecessary risk for such a mission.
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:07 pm
by geofflambert
The night of the 25th in S B strait the ships were using searchlights and their were shore based search lights on as well. The strait is narrow and they were also trying to avoid ship to ship collisions. The searchlight need not have been from a search plane for the picture to be from a search plane.
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:12 pm
by geofflambert
My guess is that the light is from a lighthouse or other facility on the hills around the strait and that the photo was taken from the shore or another ship.
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:21 pm
by geofflambert
Here's one on the northern shore of Samar overlooking the SB strait.
RE: unknown IJN Battleship
Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:21 pm
by geofflambert
Here's another
