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What Happens to PACT if Germany Invades Neutral Baltic States?
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:07 pm
by rkr1958
Situation.
USSR claims Eastern Poland but not the Baltic States during the Sep/Oct 1939 turn. I assume Germany, if they wished, could DOW and take control of the Baltic States. However, what would this do to the Nazi-Soviet Pact?
RE: What Happens to PACT if Germany Invades Neutral Baltic States?
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:35 pm
by davidachamberlain
ORIGINAL: rkr1958
Situation.
USSR claims Eastern Poland but not the Baltic States during the Sep/Oct 1939 turn. I assume Germany, if they wished, could DOW and take control of the Baltic States. However, what would this do to the Nazi-Soviet Pact?
USSR can take them even as early as Eastern Poland. There is a US entry roll though. Germany could DOW on them anytime up until USSR does, so it is usually a good idea to do it soon as long as US entry does not risk a problem.
Germany could not do any DOW at the start since Poland is automatic. Also, as soon as Germany does that, USSR can break the Neutrality pact. So, that might not be a good idea unless Germany is planning to go to war with Russia to start with.
Dave
RE: What Happens to PACT if Germany Invades Neutral Baltic States?
Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:15 am
by Joseignacio
Or the USSR could decide to keep the N-S pact (maybe it's too early to break it and declare war) but the the commercial agreement would vary:
Germany-USSR
USSR and Germany start the 1939 scenario with a trade agreement in place to exchange German build points for Soviet resources.
In each turn, Germany must lend lease 2 build points to the USSR while the USSR must supply Germany with 7 resources (2 of them must be oil). These numbers can change if circumstances vary. For each of:
ï Finland;
ï Latvia;
ï Estonia;
ï Lithuania;
ï Bulgaria;
ï Hungary;
ï Rumania; and
ï Turkey,
that an Axis major power either declares war on or aligns with (see 9.7, 9.8 and 19), reduce the number of resources the USSR must supply by 1 (minimum 0). Reduce the ordinary resources before you reduce any oil resources.
If the GE player, as many times happens fairly early in the game, has allied BU and HU, the russian player would gie 2 (7-5) resources in exchange for 2 BP. [;)]
RE: What Happens to PACT if Germany Invades Neutral Baltic States?
Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:58 am
by Dabrion
I would advice against DOWs on the Baltic's in '39, just because it would give USE3 rolls on the very good '39 USE chit pool. If Russia will contest the Pact is not possible to say in '39 anyways..
RE: What Happens to PACT if Germany Invades Neutral Baltic States?
Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:47 am
by Centuur
ORIGINAL: rkr1958
Situation.
USSR claims Eastern Poland but not the Baltic States during the Sep/Oct 1939 turn. I assume Germany, if they wished, could DOW and take control of the Baltic States. However, what would this do to the Nazi-Soviet Pact?
RAW:
If a German controlled unit enters any hex in Estonia, Latvia,
Lithuania or Turkey or declares war on any of these countries, then the
Soviet player can break the Nazi-Soviet pact during any Allied
declaration of war step. Setting up the Baltic States’ convs is not
considered entering a hex in these countries.
RE: What Happens to PACT if Germany Invades Neutral Baltic States?
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:04 pm
by RFalvo69
ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
Or the USSR could decide to keep the N-S pact (maybe it's too early to break it and declare war) but the the commercial agreement would vary:
Germany-USSR
USSR and Germany start the 1939 scenario with a trade agreement in place to exchange German build points for Soviet resources.
In each turn, Germany must lend lease 2 build points to the USSR while the USSR must supply Germany with 7 resources (2 of them must be oil). These numbers can change if circumstances vary. For each of:
ï Finland;
ï Latvia;
ï Estonia;
ï Lithuania;
ï Bulgaria;
ï Hungary;
ï Rumania; and
ï Turkey,
that an Axis major power either declares war on or aligns with (see 9.7, 9.8 and 19), reduce the number of resources the USSR must supply by 1 (minimum 0). Reduce the ordinary resources before you reduce any oil resources.
If the GE player, as many times happens fairly early in the game, has allied BU and HU, the russian player would gie 2 (7-5) resources in exchange for 2 BP. [;)]
Wouldn't that be 7 -Hungary -Bulgaria = 5 resources for two BP? (3 resources and 2 oil)?
Edit: Sorry, you obviously meant Hungary, Bulgaria plus the three Baltic States. Ignore my question [:)]
RE: What Happens to PACT if Germany Invades Neutral Baltic States?
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:07 pm
by Dabrion
I guess you would do at least one of Bessarabia or Finland too.
RE: What Happens to PACT if Germany Invades Neutral Baltic States?
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:16 am
by Joseignacio
True enough as well. So in this case it could get to 2 BP sent from GE in exchange of 1 to 0 USSR resources
RE: What Happens to PACT if Germany Invades Neutral Baltic States?
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:01 pm
by ACMW
But not necessary to declare war on all 3, is it? The peace loving Lithuanians and Latvians could be left alone, if you play SCS transports and Divs, and the warmongering Estonians attacked. Assuming GER does this in SO39 & plans Barbarossa for MA 41 and that the USSR does not break the pact, then this means a closer start line to Leningrad at the cost of 3 INFs (9BPs). Maybe still not that attractive, particularly given Estonia's tight border with Russia. But then, maybe it's the Latvians that need smiting. Of course, it is a bit of a fiddle-faddle taking combineds to ship the forces in to exploit it,
Cheers
Adrian