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Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:28 pm
by DOCUP
What do you all think of a major modernization of the Fuso and Ise's class BBs. They lose one of the twin center turrets, add 100ft or so of length, more AC and AA guns, plus about 27 knot speed. What are your alls thoughts on this?
Ill have another question about late war infantry weapons later.
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:54 pm
by geofflambert
When WWII starts BBs are obsolete. What could you possibly be thinking of? I mostly leave them in harbor.
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:57 pm
by geofflambert
Upgrade them for flak. It still won't justify the amount of oil they burn.
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:03 pm
by geofflambert
When the US has reliable radar fire control, Japanese BBs are just target hulks. Don't invest anything in them.
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:11 pm
by GetAssista
By the time they end converting (6/44), most of CV fighting is already done. Even if not, Allied deathstar is superior and those guys don't change anything.
If they were available sooner like in later 43, they would be good bomb sponge escorts with some fighter capacity for slower CVs
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:21 pm
by geofflambert
That's one way of looking at it. Since we're going to lose anyway, we could decide to do it in style, or not. Only think about ways to win. Fuso and Ise won't have anything whatsoever to do with that. Build every CV and CVL and CVE you are allowed to, man them with good aircraft with good pilots and then, decide when and where it's a good time and place to have a big carrier battle.
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:40 pm
by geofflambert
Let me put it this way. If you aren't able to husband your forces, maintain a credible CV/CVL threat even after large carrier battle defeats, you aren't being competitive. The threat of Fuso and/or Ise coming out to settle scores is laughable. If you waste your CV strength in battles you weren't prepared to win that's on you. Here's the old 5 P's. Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance. March and April of '42 are very dangerous times for the IJN KB. In any case, do not venture into unsearched waters with a carrier force. If you do, and your opponent was hoping for just such a hiccup, you will regret it for the rest of your days. Just don't do it.
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:44 pm
by SheperdN7
I like the idea of it, however instead of a Fuso/Ise modernization, I’d rather have a Nagato class modernization and rebuild, complete with the 5th 16 inch gun turret that the designer wanted in the first place. The gorn is correct by saying that BBs are obsolete in WWII, however they can still be useful as escorts and surface combatants, even if its only in the large fleet battles that you will be fighting.
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:46 pm
by geofflambert
There's a long time period before the Essex Class Carriers start to arrive. You must win a major carrier battle in that time period. If you attempt to do it on the enemy's terms, as happened historically, you are apt to lose. Don't do that.
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:48 pm
by geofflambert
ORIGINAL: SheperdN7
I like the idea of it, however instead of a Fuso/Ise modernization, I’d rather have a Nagato class modernization and rebuild, complete with the 5th 16 inch gun turret that the designer wanted in the first place. The gorn is correct by saying that BBs are obsolete in WWII, however they can still be useful as escorts and surface combatants, even if its only in the large fleet battles that you will be fighting.
CAs are equally effective and require no refits to accomplish that. Don't use old, slow BBs to attempt to escort CVs.
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:51 pm
by AW1Steve
BB's are NOT obsolete in ww2. But they have had their jobs and usefulness changed. Keep all the AAA you can on them , and support your CV's with them , when they are not doing bombardment or night surface attack. Always use ALL your assets , every single one of them. I'd much rather have a BB catch a bomb or a torpedo than a CV. Only a fool doesn't use all the resources that he has given to him. If it doesn't work using the assets as doctrine requires , then get creative and write new doctrine.
The question is how valuable are the flight decks on bb's? Well, they carry the same number of planes as a CVE. Not enough for combat , but maybe for scouting and recon aircraft? But is it worth tying up the ships and the dockyard space for that gain (and loss of gun armament)? I probably wouldn't , but you might try changing just one and see how it preforms. Historically the Japanese lacked planes and seasoned flyers for them , but your circumstances might be different. [:)]
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:52 pm
by AW1Steve
BY the way, Japanese CV's are often not all that fast. Don't use them with the fast CV's , but rather with the slower ones. The Kongo's are better for the fast CV's. [:)]
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:17 pm
by geofflambert
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
BB's are NOT obsolete in ww2. But they have had their jobs and usefulness changed. Keep all the AAA you can on them , and support your CV's with them , when they are not doing bombardment or night surface attack. Always use ALL your assets , every single one of them. I'd much rather have a BB catch a bomb or a torpedo than a CV. Only a fool doesn't use all the resources that he has given to him. If it doesn't work using the assets as doctrine requires , then get creative and write new doctrine.
The question is how valuable are the flight decks on bb's? Well, they carry the same number of planes as a CVE. Not enough for combat , but maybe for scouting and recon aircraft? But is it worth tying up the ships and the dockyard space for that gain (and loss of gun armament)? I probably wouldn't , but you might try changing just one and see how it preforms. Historically the Japanese lacked planes and seasoned flyers for them , but your circumstances might be different. [:)]
Yeah, when I'm chasing down the few remnants of your carrier forces, it certainly would help if they were slowed down by having some old BBs tagging along. Good plan!
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:19 pm
by geofflambert
ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
BB's are NOT obsolete in ww2. But they have had their jobs and usefulness changed. Keep all the AAA you can on them , and support your CV's with them , when they are not doing bombardment or night surface attack. Always use ALL your assets , every single one of them. I'd much rather have a BB catch a bomb or a torpedo than a CV. Only a fool doesn't use all the resources that he has given to him. If it doesn't work using the assets as doctrine requires , then get creative and write new doctrine.
The question is how valuable are the flight decks on bb's? Well, they carry the same number of planes as a CVE. Not enough for combat , but maybe for scouting and recon aircraft? But is it worth tying up the ships and the dockyard space for that gain (and loss of gun armament)? I probably wouldn't , but you might try changing just one and see how it preforms. Historically the Japanese lacked planes and seasoned flyers for them , but your circumstances might be different. [:)]
Why should they worry when they won't be running with their tails between their legs?
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:28 pm
by geofflambert
The IJN has plenty of CAs to escort her carriers, no BBs need apply.
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:01 pm
by Chickenboy
Point of order for DOCUP (the OP):
How many one line responses would you like for us to respond to your query? If you'd prefer, I can break my response into 15 different posts of one line apiece.
ETA: Whoops. It's been done. [:'(]
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:39 am
by InfiniteMonkey
ORIGINAL: DOCUP
What do you all think of a major modernization of the Fuso and Ise's class BBs. They lose one of the twin center turrets, add 100ft or so of length, more AC and AA guns, plus about 27 knot speed. What are your alls thoughts on this?
Ill have another question about late war infantry weapons later.
Can I scrap them completely and trade them ton for ton for E/DD ships or CD/AT/Armor LCU devices instead?
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:56 am
by PaxMondo
ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey
ORIGINAL: DOCUP
What do you all think of a major modernization of the Fuso and Ise's class BBs. They lose one of the twin center turrets, add 100ft or so of length, more AC and AA guns, plus about 27 knot speed. What are your alls thoughts on this?
Ill have another question about late war infantry weapons later.
Can I scrap them completely and trade them ton for ton for E/DD ships or CD/AT/Armor LCU devices instead?
You can create a mod that does that, but in stock, sorry ... [;)]
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:06 am
by decourcy2
Sure, trample on a JFBs hopes and dreams Pax.
In my mod the Yamashiro's are even slower as their power plants were in a bad way at the start of the war and nothing was ever done about that.
RE: Questions for JFB's
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:20 am
by PaxMondo
ORIGINAL: decourcy2
Sure, trample on a JFBs hopes and dreams Pax.
In my mod the Yamashiro's are even slower as their power plants were in a bad way at the start of the war and nothing was ever done about that.
+1
And I have cut their range for the same fuel bunkers (decreased fuel efficiency). I added an upgrade to them (180 days) to bring them back to 'stock' numbers.
PS: BTW, I have built scrapping into my mod. You only get resources back (think recycle the steel), but it is better than nothing. I think I have the number set at like 50% of original required amount.