Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:54 am**

Hey fellow modders,

I want to add the concept of "bomb sticks" in my mod (and at the same time create alternate loads for different mission filters).

It's about reducing the high hit percentages of large bombloads containing many bombs, since each bomb has it's own hit roll (as if each bomb was aimed and dropped individually).

It's not realistic since most of the time bombloads were dropped in one go or in groups ("sticks"), not individually.

The idea of "sticks" has been floating around the forum for years and some mods may already use it.

I am wondering about the modifications to be made to the bomb device values like effect and accuracy.

Assuming a bomb stick of four bombs for example is being "walked" across a target (a ship, a structure, a bunker or tank etc.) and considered a hit in game terms, one bomb might be a direct hit, one or two damaging near misses and one or two off the mark.

What would be the best way to modify the device values in order to "simulate" this scenario?

Load costs of a 4-bombs-stick must be four times higher than the individual bomb of the same type, obviously.

I was thinking about doubling effect and accuracy values of the 4-bomb-stick compared to an individual bomb, but I'm not sure if this will have the desired effect.

Anyone has been working on this concept and is willing to share thoughts / insights?

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:15 am**

I wouldn't go down that path of modifying the stats as I think you will get the opposite outcome to what you want.  Your idea of "walking" the stick is not really compatible with the algorithms.  In as much as walking is already in that wold be factored in by the die rolls which are used to convert a hit into actual damage inflicted.
 
Have a read of this thread and note treespider's comments (and disregard what el Cid and others posted).
 
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3065227&mpage=1&key=stick&#3071042
 
Be careful with the load costs.  Better way of factoring that in would be by the use of the alternate bomb filters to reduce the number carried of the new specified device.
 
Alfred

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:40 pm**

I've had some success with the device filters in my testing of my Long Road to Tokyo Mod. They work rather well. I would suggest you try altering the load outs rather than the device stats.

SITREP - summer 1947 - the combined USN/BPF fast carrier task forces are sitting two hexes off Nagoya, getting some payback for the ironman nasty nasty kicking dished out back in 1942-43.

Port strike extracts - My filtering on the AD-1 gave it as (short range no drop tanks) alt-nav (bombs) 1 x 2000lb SAP, 4 x 500lb SAP. On Port strike it gets a 1000lb GP centreline and a bunch of 500 lbrs on its wing racks (but only fits 6 despite having 12 racks). The Blackburn Firebrand can lift 2 x 2000lbr SAP (or one torpedo) on a short haul nav strike, but has 4 1k's for a port strike.

The filters work very well. Please note the F9F will not be arriving until 1948 in the finished version of the mod - too good, and the FJ-1s get the job done.

Afternoon Air attack on Nagoya , at 111,60

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3
Ki-94-II x 47

Allied aircraft
Avenger III x 125
Firebrand TF Mk IV x 83
Corsair V x 95
Firefly F.IV x 54
Seafire F.47 x 18
Sea Fury x 32
F4U-1D Corsair x 29
F4U-4 Corsair x 338
F8F-1 Bearcat x 172
FR-1 Fireball x 35
FJ-1 Fury x 248
FH-1 Phantom x 111
F9F Panther x 218
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 100
SB2C-5 Helldiver x 299
TBF-1 Avenger x 12
TBM-3 Avenger x 45
AD-1 Skyraider x 588

Japanese Ships
BB Hotaka, Bomb hits 78, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Shimakaze, Bomb hits 6, and is sunk
CA Kumano, Bomb hits 24, and is sunk
CA Takachiho, Bomb hits 39, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Furutaka, Bomb hits 30, and is sunk
CA Kako, Bomb hits 28, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Ozuki, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Mikuma, Bomb hits 36, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Azama, Bomb hits 35, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Yaegumo, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Onome, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Fuyutsuki, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Myojinkaze, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Satsukaze, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.77, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Suzukaze, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
ML G-301, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
TK Rebuni Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Noyate, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Kiyousuki, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.190, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
DD Hikokaze, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Susukaze, Bomb hits 5, and is sunk
ML G-406, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
DD Wakaba, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
ML G-318, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ML G-427, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ML G-407, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Repair Shipyard hits 24
Port hits 51

Now, all the strike aircraft (including prop fighters and the FH-1s and Fireballs) were set to naval attack, port strike secondary. Some interesting things showed up in the strike details.

3 x F4U-4 Corsair bombing from 18000 feet
Port Attack: 2 plane(s) with no ordnance
Port Attack: 2 x 1000 lb GP Bomb

Appears some of my aggressive Corsair drivers jettisoned their bombs and tangled with the cap ( there was a bit of this)

4 x FJ-1 Fury sweeping at 18000 feet
4 x F9F Panther sweeping at 18000 feet

Not sure if these guys were disobeying escort tasking, or are actually part of the 60% left on cap, but by the time they got there the paltry IJ cap had disappeared. Suffice to say, nobody had sweep orders, or it would have been at 40,000 feet.

This was more interesting:

14 x AD-1 Skyraider bombing from 18000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 2000 lb AP Bomb, 4 x 500 lb SAP Bomb, 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb, 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

It looks like some of these guys went out with a nav strike load, some with port strike. Hopefully some of those SAP bombs hit the armoured ships. My Firebrands did it as well, but it all fitted within the mission parameters in some fashion.

18 x Firebrand TF Mk IV bombing from 18000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 2000 lb AP Bomb, 4 x 1000 lb GP Bomb

This did not happen often - roughly 90%+ went with the port strike load out. Also note, I deliberately put them at 18k to keep them above the flak. All the Avengers carried 2 x 500lb GPs. May as well toss them off the carriers and replace them with SB2Cs or ADs at this point.

Why don't you try spreading the bombload into 'sticks' in different device slots, without multiplying numbers of small bombs (for the reason given by Treespider in the thread Alfred linked)?

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:14 pm**

Chirps from the fence:

Interesting concept so here are a couple of points for you to expound upon.

A 'stick' of bombs may have a higher probability to hit if you consider all four elements as 1 attack.
Is that any better than 4x the die roll?

The effect should be reduced as you would be dividing the full explosive payload across an accepted hit/miss ratio.

Do you want to take 4 shots at full explosive effect with a base 20% hit rate?
or
Do you want to increase the chance for 1 hit (at something far less than 100% chance -- I would venture the 30 to 40% hit probability) with a 25 to 50% explosive hit rate?

I believe all the above would also be effected by factors like pilot skill, altitude, morale, what else?

Is this applicable to both sides or just the Allies?
Good luck tinkering under the hood.

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:10 pm**

Dansez,

If you do some rough calculations on my uber port strike, it tells you that something upwards of 6500 bombs were dropped for about 400 hits. FOW probably means less hits than that. Likely less than a 5% hit rate. This is by high skill aircrew against ineffective CAP. The light rain might have some negative effect.

I understood Alfred to be saying that the combat algorithms (may) already factor in an element that abstracts the spread of a bomb stick.

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:57 pm**

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Dansez,

If you do some rough calculations on my uber port strike, it tells you that something upwards of 6500 bombs were dropped for about 400 hits. FOW probably means less hits than that. Likely less than a 5% hit rate. This is by high skill aircrew against ineffective CAP. The light rain might have some negative effect.

I understood Alfred to be saying that the combat algorithms (may) already factor in an element that abstracts the spread of a bomb stick.

Yes.[;)]

It is a 2 step process.

Step 1 is determining whether the bomb dropped hits. Device stats, delivery stats (eg pilot skills et al), environmental conditions (eg flak induced bombing disruption, weather et al). This step therefore is a combination of randoms and player decisions which shape the battlefield. Obviously if no hit results then no damage can ensue.

Step 2 is determining the amount of damage which results from the achieved hit. This step is entirely determined by a random. The damage range is from zero up to the device's effect number. Thus a hit can inflict zero (low probability) or limited (reasonable odds) damage.

This two step process therefore already abstracts the "walking" which LST wants to accomplish. A significant risk which LST has to guard against is to not effectively improve the odds of getting a hit. This is where adept use of the alternate bomb load filters comes into play. Taking into account Treespider's comments in the linked thread the way to approach this is to

create a new dedicated device (aka bomb) with similar stats to those of an existing bomb with the equivalent explosive power
using the alternate bomb filters reduce proportionately the number of "stick bombs" carried on that particular mission profile

One of the easily overlooked points is that the AI takes into account the type of target (ship) when electing to use GP or AP ordnance.

Alfred

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:48 am**

Looks offical:

Tweak #34 in patch V1.01. 08r9 – January 21, 2012

34. Tweaked Air attacks at 10K were not being adjusted for misses when checking each bomb dropped. [A miss after a hit should end the 'stick' or increase the odds of any further bombs in same 'stick' of missing.]

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:02 am**

Incidentally, I tested out another uber port strike, this time on Yokohama. This time I swept first to get rid of the cap, and sent the strike at 14k so the dive-bombers would release at low altitude. The weather was awful, the fleet has been at sea for a while so the strike was significantly smaller, a lot of flak casualties were sustained ... but bombing accuracy was certainly improved. About 3000 less bombs dropped, still about 400 reported hits.

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 37 minutes

Allied aircraft
Avenger III x 120
Firebrand TF Mk IV x 29
Sea Fury x 32
F8F-1 Bearcat x 44
FJ-1 Fury x 265
FH-1 Phantom x 33
F9F Panther x 71
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 74
SB2C-5 Helldiver x 150
TBF-1 Avenger x 12
TBM-3 Avenger x 380
AD-1 Skyraider x 108

Allied aircraft losses
Avenger III: 8 damaged
Avenger III: 1 destroyed by flak
Firebrand TF Mk IV: 4 damaged
Firebrand TF Mk IV: 1 destroyed by flak
F8F-1 Bearcat: 14 damaged
F8F-1 Bearcat: 1 destroyed by flak
FH-1 Phantom: 8 damaged
FH-1 Phantom: 2 destroyed by flak
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 9 damaged
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 1 destroyed by flak
SB2C-5 Helldiver: 21 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 damaged
TBM-3 Avenger: 67 damaged
TBM-3 Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak
AD-1 Skyraider: 23 damaged
AD-1 Skyraider: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
LST T-158, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
CL Yashiro, Bomb hits 16, and is sunk
APD -115, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
APD -113, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Yamanagiri, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Ushio, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
DD Nobikaze, Bomb hits 6, and is sunk
SST I-361, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
DD Hayanami, Bomb hits 5, and is sunk
E No.33, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Ashi, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.45, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
APD -121, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
AD Koshu Maru #2, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Kawagiri, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
ML G-319, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
DD Yoitsuki, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Yuri, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.67, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Tadeyame, Bomb hits 7, and is sunk
E No.37, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Aoi, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Yomogi, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
APD -122, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Katsutade, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Amatsukaze, Bomb hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
SC CHa-65, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
E No.198, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
E Kasshoku-umi, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.47, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.205, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
PB No. 266, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
APD T-23, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Suresushio, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.55, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
DD Tatsuyuke, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
APD T-17, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
SST I-366, Bomb hits 7, and is sunk
LST T-152, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LST T-150, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
APD T-19, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Suruyate, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
AKE Soya, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Tamanami, Bomb hits 5, and is sunk
PB No. 212, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
TK Akita Maru, Bomb hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Suzunami, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
APD -119, Bomb hits 5, and is sunk
DD Tadeyate, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
E Kozu, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.39, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AD Gyoko Maru, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.196, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.221, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
APD -120, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
E No.63, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
E Mikura, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Kiyoshimo, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.49, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
E Taboko, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Kuroshio, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.158, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
E No.215, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
AD Shintoku Maru, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
ML M-1, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
APD -121, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Shirakumo, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Michitsuki, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk
E Kurotori, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
E Takane, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.207, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Sazanami, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
LCI LB-5015, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AMc No. 207, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.69, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
ML G-206, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
APD Tade, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.21, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
E Ikino, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
SC CHa-71, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
E No.35, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
E Hirado, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB No. 236, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.200, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
E Natsushima, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
E No.73, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
E Shisaka, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
E No.60, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
E No.41, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
APD -116, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
E No.11, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
ML G-203, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
E No.61, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
E No.17, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
ML M-10, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
E No.27, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LST T-142, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
E Amami, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.81, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
E No.43, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.75, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMc No. 233, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
E No.20, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ML M-9, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ML M-2, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCI LB-5053, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
E Io, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Repair Shipyard hits 42
Port hits 45
Port fuel hits 10
Port supply hits 1

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:56 am**

Thx for the comments so far.

Ian, I don't understand your test in this context - dive-bombers usually drop single bombs, not sticks.

I'm talking about B-17s or B-24 that can carry 12 500lbs bombs.

They used to fly either in formation at altitude and drop the entire load over the target in one salvo (mostly for area targets), or made individual runs over the target, releasing all bombs in one attack run or in single "sticks" with multiple attack runs (mostly used for point target).

Alfred, my idea was:

Step 1 determines if the "stick" hits the target area or misses entirely.

In step 2, if the "stick" hits in the target area, I assume not all bombs of the stick will be direct hits on the targeted ship/structure, but that the stick does "walk" across the target and thus some bombs of the stick might be direct hits, some damaging near misses and some missing far away enough to have little effect. This would be modeled by the variation in amount of damage which results from the hit of the stick.

However, I understand that this approach is more reflecting point targets than for area targets, so I may continue with single bombs for filter 01 (city attacks) and use "sticks" for the other filters. Or maybe "sticks" only for 02 (naval attack) and 64 (ASW), since it is primarily the effectiveness of HB against naval target which irks.

One of the easily overlooked points is that the AI takes into account the type of target (ship) when electing to use GP or AP ordnance.

As I understand the editor, that means the "Alt Device" values must be set to link devices for the corresponding GP and AP sticks, and the "Alt use" must reflect the mission.

So if device A is the 4x500AP stick and device B is the 4x500GP stick, the Alt Device must show B for the A device and A for the B device, and Alt Use must be 4 to indicate the choice between AP and GP is intended for naval attacks.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

using the alternate bomb filters reduce proportionately the number of "stick bombs" carried on that particular mission profile

I don't get that one - how do the filters reduce the number of bombs carried? AFAIK the number of bombs is defined in the weapons table of the aircraft tab.

Wait, just had a thought - how about not bothering with sticks at all but create single GP and AP bomb devices with really lousy accuracy, to be used with the filters for naval attacks only. That may solve the issue with multiple hits by HBs on naval attack?

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:02 pm**

How RHS mod solved this
tm.asp?m=4346175&mpage=15&key=

Also, if you check old threads about early Babes mods, there WAS info saying the mod used the "bomb stick" concept. You would have to contact Symon to learn how he did that though.

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:03 pm**

Ian, I don't understand your test in this context - dive-bombers usually drop single bombs, not sticks.

My "1946" strike aircraft - classified as dive- bombers - have their ordnance set up in sticks. i.e, using more than one device slot, employing the filters coded by michaelm.

EG the Skyraider port strike load out (no external tanks) is -

1x 1000lbr on the centreline hard point - this goes in one device slot, and is as I understand it, "a stick."

6 x 500lbr on the various wing racks, which takes it to max load of 4k. They are a second stick.

[There are not enough device slots available to break that down into more slots.]

If your first 500lbr misses then the rest will also miss, or at least have a reduced chance of a hit. Edit: I resile from this statement - the tweak activates after a miss follows a hit.

Tweak 34 ... [A miss after a hit should end the 'stick' or increase the odds of any further bombs in same 'stick' of missing.]

My test showed that even level bombing under reasonable conditions, at 18k, with the high skill "A team" flying, you get about <5% hit rate.

My second test showed, I think, that sending in the A team to dive bomb at 14k feet, you roughly double the hit rate - anecdotal only, but it seems like more up front 500lbr hits meaning that later bombs in the stick are not being negatively affected by Tweak 34.

Here's Mr Spad:

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:22 pm**

Weapon slot 6 is not a stick, it shows six individual bombs. A stick setup would have a device named "3x 500 lb bombs" with number = 2. Thus the plane would make two drops (hit rolls) with one device each, the device being defined as representing a stick of three bombs dropped together. Your setup makes six drops (hit rolls) each with a device representing single bombs.

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:05 pm**

The way I interpret MichaelM's comment quoted by Alfred is that a "stick" is a device that shows >1 individual bombs so that the code can work them as individual bombs in a stick, each influenced by the outcome of the one before it (except for the first one of course).

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:33 pm**

I mostly agree with Witpqs.

MichaelM did say "A miss after a hit" . I took that to mean that each bomb gets separately assessed up to that point.

So if you have a B24 with a stick of 500lb GP x 10 (all in the same aircraft device slot) it could get results of miss, miss, hit, hit, miss - and then the code in tweak #34 impacts bombs 6-10 in the stick.

Posted: **Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:00 pm**

ORIGINAL: Ian R

I mostly agree with Witpqs.

MichaelM did say "A miss after a hit" . I took that to mean that each bomb gets separately assessed up to that point.

So if you have a B24 with a stick of 500lb GP x 10 (all in the same aircraft device slot) it could get results of miss, miss, hit, hit, miss - and then the code in tweak #34 impacts bombs 6-10 in the stick.

That is also my interpretation.

As for topic:
I remember, that I made tests with B-29 attacks against Yamato, with really lousy pilots (exp 30). I was actually testing San Kaidens in main Yamato artillery, but B-29 seemed to score hits every time, for every plane, so bomb device accuracy is probably not that important in calculation. Number of bombs alone, will guarantee hits.

What I remember from my tests few years ago:
In ground attack, effect is not important. 50 kg bomb kills squads as easily, as 250 kg.
Same in closing airfields (and probably ports). Only number of hits counts.
When targeting planes on ground, effect seems to have small impact. Larger bombs can destroy planes more easily, smaller only damage them. I gave KATEs historical bombload of 6x50 kg + 1x250 kg in airfield attack, but that doesn't increased number of damaged planes in significant way (less than 15%)

So... I would say from whole stick, only one bomb should hit. I would leave effect the same, and increase accuracy. I don't think bomb weight is actually used for anything. Also, for Port Attacks, maybe introduce larger bombs. Something like one used against Tirpitz?

Posted: **Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:23 pm**

ORIGINAL: inqistor
Also, for Port Attacks, maybe introduce larger bombs.

I'm for this idea [:D]

Posted: **Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:03 am**

Its already in there. Late war you get a Lancaster "Special" wing with Tiger Force. the 12000 lb bomb is stock device #1877.

It can carry it 12 hexes away IIRC. At extended range it only gets a 4k lb cookie.

Unfortunately the aircraft is helpless in the face of CAP, so you can only use it at night, and it never hits anything when I send it on port strikes. The A-26B Invader (the attack bomber version) with 2000lb AP bombs flying day time at low altitude under mass fighter sweeps is a much more effective ship killer.

Posted: **Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:11 pm**

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The way I interpret MichaelM's comment quoted by Alfred is that a "stick" is a device that shows >1 individual bombs so that the code can work them as individual bombs in a stick, each influenced by the outcome of the one before it (except for the first one of course).

Shouldn't the stick be all the bombs that have same filter?

Posted: **Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:31 pm**

ORIGINAL: Dili

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The way I interpret MichaelM's comment quoted by Alfred is that a "stick" is a device that shows >1 individual bombs so that the code can work them as individual bombs in a stick, each influenced by the outcome of the one before it (except for the first one of course).

Shouldn't the stick be all the bombs that have same filter?

I was not commenting on the filters there. IIRC each device entry on the aircraft has its own optional filter, and AFAIK a stick is just a device entry of some kind of bomb with a quantity of 2 or greater.

Is that your understanding?

Posted: **Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:28 pm**

Yes.

I limit my medium bombers to 6 bombs - or bomb sticks - heavy bombers to 10 bombs or bomb sticks.

Here is Piaggio 108

Matrix Games Forums

Bomb "sticks"

Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"

RE: Bomb "sticks"